This episode breaks down which nutrients matter most and how to get them affordably. You’ll also hear tips on lowering daily toxin exposure, improving sleep, and making smart swaps at the grocery store. These are practical, doable steps even if you’re working with limited time and money.  If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.

Dr. Eric Osansky: 

In this episode, I am going to discuss how to eat healthy and restore your thyroid and immune system health on a budget. If you have been diagnosed with hyperthyroidism or Hashimoto’s, I don’t need to tell you how overwhelming the journey can feel. I have worked with so many people who are trying to heal while also feeling stretched financially as well as emotionally. Hundreds or even thousands of dollars on labs or a drawerful of supplements only to feel stuck. 

That’s why in this episode, I want to break it down and simplify the process, especially if you are on a tight budget. I will walk you through what to focus on first, where micronutrients come in, and what to do if you are feeling like you’re drowning in information or expenses.

I have seen it so many times: those who want to heal naturally but are financially burned out from chasing complex protocols. They are juggling work, caregiving, and their own symptoms. On top of that, they’re being told they need a dozen lab tests and 15 supplements just to get started.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s without question I recommend tests and supplements to my patients. This is true with most functional medicine practitioners. This isn’t about doing everything. It’s about doing what matters first. You don’t need to spend a fortune to start moving a needle in your health. 

If you’re deficient in key vitamins and minerals, it’s like trying to rebuild your house with no materials. Micronutrients play a role in calming the immune response. They can support thyroid function. Even help with detoxification. The good news is you don’t need to take dozens of supplements to address these micronutrients.

Sure, there is a time and place for supplementation such as magnesium, selenium, Vitamin B12, Vitamin D. I do commonly recommend these as well as other supplements to my patients. But you also need to incorporate the foundations, which include eating whole, healthy foods. That’s where you want to start. You always want to start with whole, healthy foods. 

A question that a lot of people have is do you absolutely need to eat organic? I do recommend trying to eat as many organic foods as possible, but obviously, organic food does cost more. If you’re on a budget, you might need to prioritize.

If you eat meat, I would try to eat organic. If you eat red meat, but you can’t afford organic, grass-fed, grass-finished beef, I would at least make sure, even if it’s grass-fed, grass-finished but not organic, that’s still good. Arguably, that might be even better. 

If you had a choice between organic but not grass-fed, grass-finished, or non-organic, grass-fed, grass-finished, grass-fed is a priority. Even in that situation, would it be the end of the world if every now and then you ate beef that is not 100% grass-fed, grass-finished? Not the end of the world. You want to try to do your best. 

It’s similar with fruits and vegetables. When it comes to fruits and vegetables, for the most part, I’m eating organic. You could always refer to the Dirty Dozen and the Clean 15 lists from the Environmental Working Group, which you could check out by visiting EWG.org. 

If you’re not familiar with these lists, the Dirty Dozen list is the top 12 fruits and vegetables with the greatest amount of pesticides. The Clean 15 lists the top 15 fruits and vegetables with the least amount of pesticides. They’re not perfect. There is no perfect list out there. 

If you’re on a budget and can’t afford to purchase all organic fruits and vegetables, then you would at the very least want to try to avoid the fruits and vegetables on the Dirty Dozen list and stick with the fruits and vegetables on the Clean 15 list. 

At least the allowed foods. If you have read my books, you know I recommend either an AIP diet or a paleo diet. Not all of those foods on the Clean 15 list are AIP or paleo-friendly.

Besides food, don’t overlook the importance of stress management and proper sleep. These are the foundations. Eating whole, healthy foods; avoiding refined foods and sugars and fast food; stress management; and proper sleep are all extremely important. 

Sometimes, you might need to work on other aspects of your life to get proper sleep. For example, it’s easy to say, “If you’re not sleeping at least 7-8 hours, start getting that much sleep.” Sometimes, it’s not that simple. You might need to correct blood sugar imbalances, which could relate to diet that we just spoke about. I didn’t get too specific with the diet because I discuss this in other episodes and my books.

Also, minimizing blue light at night. If you’re on your phone at night an hour or two before going to bed, or on your computer, or watching TV, that could cause problems with sleep. At least an hour before going to bed, try not to go on electronic devices. I can’t say I always do that. 

If you are struggling with sleep, you want to do everything you can. This doesn’t cost any money, not to go on your phone or your computer. We’ll talk about what you can do on a budget. Honestly, I recommend for everyone to do that, even if you are not on a budget, to avoid blue light before going to bed. 

If I am conducting a webinar at night, I might not follow that rule. There are other times I am guilty about not following that. I try not to go on my phone right before going to bed or in bed. 

A lot of people will bring their phone into bed and surf the internet or text some people right before going to bed. I would try to get out of that habit if that describes you.

Getting some morning sunlight whenever possible. I realize not everybody can get morning sunlight every single day. When there is morning sunlight, going outside first thing in the morning for a few minutes, getting sunlight, that could help reset your circadian rhythm. That really can make a big difference. 

Should mention grounding. Going outside barefoot for a minute or two even. If you’re doing it for longer than that, that would be great. You can get a grounding mat. The basics is what I’m talking about here.

Let’s talk about supplements. How can you prioritize nutritional supplements? Supplements definitely can get expensive. As I mentioned, I do recommend supplements for my patients. I’d be a hypocrite if I said, “Don’t take any supplements. Just rely on diet and lifestyle.” If you can’t afford supplements, either way, you want to focus on diet and lifestyle. I do think supplements can be helpful. 

I focus on nutrients first. The reason for that is because you can have, for example, an omega-3 fatty acid deficiency, but you can’t have a turmeric deficiency. There are great things about turmeric, curcumin, helping with inflammation. I commonly recommend not always in supplement form but even through food to get turmeric. Either way, turmeric/curcumin is great. Like I said, you’re not going to have a deficiency in turmeric, but you definitely can and often do have a deficiency in omega-3 fatty acids. 

Many people have a Vitamin D deficiency, which is more of a pro hormone than a vitamin. The point is, you want to focus on nutrients first, nutrients that you can become deficient in. 

When it comes to basic supplements that I recommend to many of my patients, fish oils, or if you are vegan/vegetarian, then algae oil. An omega-3 fatty acid supplement. You can also do an omega-3 index, which involves more money. If you’re on a budget, you might not want to spend the money on that. There is a company, Omega Quant. It’s $55-60 to do that test. You could do a more comprehensive fatty acid profile. If you really want to see if you are deficient, you can test. 

If you’re not taking fish oils or an omega-3 fatty acid supplement or eating fish at least three times a week, you probably are deficient. If you want to test, that option is out there. 

Vitamin D. Most people, if they’re not supplementing with Vitamin D, are deficient. There are some people who are able to have healthy Vitamin D levels by getting regular sunlight. I recommend testing either way. That’s the only way to know for sure. If you are getting regular sunlight, you can’t assume your Vitamin D levels are optimal, not just within the lab range. 

You would want to test Vitamin D, selenium, magnesium. Those are the ones I commonly recommend to patients. 

I also recommend probiotics. You can try to get as many probiotics as you can through fermented foods like sauerkraut. It’s great to rotate them. The problem with fermented foods is most people aren’t eating them every day. If they are, many times, they are eating the same fermented foods. If they are eating sauerkraut, that’s what they’re eating every day. Maybe they are eating unsweetened coconut yogurt. They might not be getting enough probiotics from that, or even sauerkraut. 

I recommend doing both. If you’re willing to eat fermented foods, great. Probiotics are expensive. That is one thing I do commonly recommend.

Prebiotics are something that I can’t say everybody needs, especially if you are getting prebiotics through diet by eating fiber-rich foods, especially vegetables. There are some good quality, inexpensive prebiotics. I don’t like Now Foods for all their supplements, but I do like their prebiotics. They have certified organic inulin and certified organic acacia fiber. Those are prebiotics I personally add to my smoothies. They’re cost-effective.

Digestive enzymes are something I commonly recommend. The one I recommend also has butane HCl because a lot of people have low stomach acid.

To reduce your toxic burden, the biggest thing is to minimize exposure to environmental toxins in your home. Eating organic can help with that, or at least avoiding the Dirty Dozen list. 

Trying to use natural cleaners and cosmetics. I realize that can also become expensive. At least prioritize the cleaners and cosmetics you use on a day-in, day-out basis. Try to make those natural. 

If you are using a cleaner in the house, use a natural cleaner. You don’t have to spend $20 on a natural cleaner. You can get a good natural cleaner spray for $5, for example. If you’re using the conventional sprays, like 409 or Clorox wipes, I would minimize- I’m not saying there is never a time and place for these. The products you use on a daily basis, I would try to make them natural. 

For supplement purposes, NAC is great for detoxification. It’s a precursor to glutathione, which is the master antioxidant and helps support phase 2 detoxification. I also have a product supplement, Hepatommune Supreme, which has NAC. It is a little bit on the pricey side. NAC is a really good option for a lot of people.

Sweating. Sauna is great. If you don’t have a sauna, you can sweat in other ways, like exercise. You do want to be careful with exercise, especially if you have hyperthyroidism and an elevated resting heart rate. 

The point is, there is a lot you can do to reduce your toxic burden without taking a lot of supplements.

Let’s talk about testing. Basic blood tests, thyroid, TSH would be the most basic. TSH is actually a pituitary hormone, not thyroid hormone. There is a company, Direct Labs, that offers a comprehensive wellness panel that has a TSH, CBC, comprehensive metabolic panel, lipid panel, and a few other markers. The regular price is $100, but they have sales for $60-70 every now and then. 

I really do recommend a thyroid panel, not just TSH. Looking at T3, T4. I prefer the free hormones, free T3 and free T4. If you are paying out of pocket, it can get expensive to test antibodies on a regular basis. I would say if you can, at least do a thyroid panel. A TSH, free T3, free T4 every other month. If you have to do antibodies every other time you do a blood test, which would be every four months, you can only do what you can do. 

You might hear me and others talk about reverse T3. If you have hyperthyroidism, most of the time, reverse T3 will be elevated, so you don’t need it. Honestly, I wouldn’t say it’s absolutely essential with Hashimoto’s. It’s great to have, but is it a must? I would say in many cases, no. Don’t feel bad if you can’t afford reverse T3.

Vitamin D, I would try to get. I recommend an iron panel, not because a lot of people are deficient, but that is one reason why. Some people have elevated iron levels, so they might have hemochromatosis or other reasons why iron is elevated, which is not good. If you have too much iron, that will cause oxidative stress. 

Obviously, if you have too little iron, that’s not good either. You don’t want to randomly take iron. If you do that, and you happen to have hemochromatosis, which you can’t go by symptoms necessarily, that could make things worse. 

There are other blood tests I like, blood tests that look at blood sugar imbalances like hemoglobin A1C, fasting insulin, inflammatory markers. 

I am trying to keep it basic. You can only do what you can do. If you can do a thyroid panel, Vitamin D, iron panel. The more you can do, the better, but doing those are pretty important. 

When it comes to functional medicine tests, I have always been more on the conservative side when it comes to functional medicine testing. There is a time and place for comprehensive testing, and it really depends on the person. I’m not saying I will never recommend comprehensive testing because there are times where I do. I won’t recommend thousands of dollars’ worth of tests for anyone.

When I dealt with Graves’, in addition to comprehensive blood testing, I did an adrenal saliva test, a hair mineral analysis test, and that’s it. I didn’t do a comprehensive stool panel or organic acids test or mold testing or mycotoxins. Some people do need those tests. 

It’s perfectly fine to start off with the basics, to start off conservatively. That’s what I did. A lot of my patients also start off conservatively. Sometimes, I’ll look at someone’s health history and suspect mold or gut issues. I won’t recommend a comprehensive stool panel or urinary mycotoxins test or another type of test. It really does depend on the person. Don’t think you need to spend thousands of dollars on functional medicine testing. Many times, that’s not the case.

For the most part, that’s all I want to discuss here. Getting back to the toxic burden, I would assume you’re toxic. Hair mineral analysis looks at heavy metals such as mercury and aluminum. There is urinary testing for heavy metals and mycotoxins testing. 

With testing for toxins, you can’t test for all toxins anyway. There are too many toxins to test for. You could always assume you’re toxic because we are all toxic. We all just have different toxic burdens. 

Do things to reduce your toxic burden. Try to do as much as you can through diet. Cruciferous vegetables are really good for supporting phase 2 detoxification. I spoke about cruciferous vegetables in previous episodes. A lot of controversy with cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli and thyroid health. Most people, it’s fine to eat them. 

Of course, you want to stay well hydrated. Drink plenty of water. I mentioned NAC. If you want to take a supplement.

I also should mention some free or low-cost resources. Of course, there is this podcast and my YouTube channel. I have a few websites. SaveMyThyroid.com is my newer website that has been out since I launched my podcast in 2021. I also have one, NaturalEndocrineSolutions.com, which has been out since 2010. That is where I have hundreds of articles and blog posts related to thyroid health, both hyperthyroidism/Graves’ and hypothyroidism/Hashimoto’s. Also, the transcripts to the main Tuesday podcasts are on that website. I have a new newsletter called “Healthy Gut, Healthy Thyroid.” You can check that out by visiting SaveMyThyroid.com/Newsletter.

I have three books, which aren’t free but are lower in cost. Natural Treatment Solutions for Hyperthyroidism and Graves’, which is now in its third edition. Hashimoto’s Triggers and The Hyperthyroid Healing Diet. You can check those out on Amazon.

It’s great to have information, but there is also some free or low-cost support. My Facebook groups, there is a lot of people with thyroid and autoimmune thyroid conditions in there. I can’t say I’m too active in there because I have a lot of things besides working with patients, trying to keep up with the podcast. There is only so much time I have. 

There are a lot of people in there dealing with thyroid or autoimmune thyroid conditions. Of course, you need to be careful to take medical advice from these people who are not practitioners. It is nice to be in a group where others are going through the same thing that you are.

I do have occasional Facebook Lives. They used to be live streamed directly in the group, but Facebook doesn’t allow that anymore. Now, when I do a livestream, which I do to my Facebook page, my YouTube channel, and Instagram. I just got on last year in 2024 after years of not being on Instagram. I guess I’ll just do it. Sometimes, I’ll do those lives, where I’ll answer questions. Be on the lookout for that. If you’re on my email list, you will typically get those alerts.

I also have live events a few times a year that are either free or low cost. Typically, I have a few five-day challenges or boot camps. When they are paid, usually they are less than $100. Sometimes, there are exceptions to that. I try to make them affordable, so be on the lookout for those. If you are in my Facebook group, I do post them. 

The problem with the Facebook group is when I post something, everybody sees them. In one group, I have 9,000 people. in the other group, 20,000 people. 

Definitely get on my email list. You can do that by visiting SaveMyThyroid.com or NaturalEndocrineSolutions.com. On the first one, there is a quiz you can take, and then you will be on my email list. On the second one, there is a free guide, where if you request it, you will be on my list. Those are ways to be informed of when I do a livestream where I answer questions, or a live event, like a 3-5-day live event, where I provide information and answer questions. 

That is really all I want to discuss here. Hopefully, you found this to be valuable. You definitely could eat healthy and do things to restore your thyroid or immune system health on a budget. 

Can it be more challenging with some people? Yeah, it definitely can be. You can only do what you can do. I just wanted to make you aware that there are things you can do. 

Some people feel like they need to spend thousands of dollars to restore their health. I realize not everybody is in a position to work with me or another functional medicine practitioner. Functional medicine is not cheap. I understand that. I wanted to put together an episode where I give you some information as well as some of these low-cost resources and support. 

Hope you found this episode to be valuable. Thank you so much for listening. I look forward to catching you in the next episode.

Recently, I interviewed Malka, who opens up about her ongoing battle with thyroid eye disease. She talks about her challenges, unexpected setbacks, and the constant search for solutions. We also talk about the lifestyle changes she’s made, the risks of different treatments, and the tough choices she faces while fighting to preserve her vision. If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.

Dr. Eric Osansky: 

Welcome to another Save My Thyroid audit. I’m very excited to chat with Malka here, as she has been dealing with thyroid eye disease, cataracts, and other vision issues. Malka, thank you so much for joining us. 

Malka: 

Hi, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. 

Dr. Eric:

I’m sure this will be a really interesting conversation. I work with a lot of people who have thyroid eye disease. Definitely want to hear your background. You have been dealing with Graves’ itself for- 

Malka: 

A long time. 

Dr. Eric:

20+ years, correct? 

Malka: 

When my 21-year-old son was a baby, that is when I started feeling off. I lost a lot of weight. I was only 25. They said, “This sometimes happens,” and they put me on PTU. I took it for 18 months. It came, it left, we’re done.

One of the other things I found after that, the glare started bothering me. I didn’t connect it to anything else. After that, I was okay. 

Then I had twins in 2009. When 2009 came, I started not feeling well. Having trouble breathing. They said that hyperthyroidism could come back when you have twins. I said that was interesting. I didn’t know that. I went on another 18 months of PTU. It’s twins. It’s a separate thing. 

It came back again. One of my doctors mentioned, “By the way, you have steroid cataracts.” I have never taken steroids. I don’t have asthma. I said, “Okay.” Keep an eye on it; just wear glasses. Wear sunglasses.

In 2020, I had a very stressful thing happen in my life. I started losing weight. I would go to the couch and be out of breath. I lost a ton of weight; I lost 20 pounds. When my thyroid came back this time, they said, “This is Graves’.” Once it comes back this third time, it’s become autoimmune rather than just coming and going. 

I went on methimazole for about 18 months-two years. I went back. Something came. I had another stressful event. I came back again. 

It was interesting. When I was in remission, I looked at the bloodwork. When the doctor said I was at goal, I started having on my eyelids eczema. It was very strange. My eyes were very dry. I went to the eye doctor, and the eye doctor said, “This is thyroid eye disease.” When I went to go check, he said, “I can’t correct you to 20/20. You need cataract surgery.” I’m 45 years old. I wasn’t expecting to need it that quickly. I waited for a second opinion, and the doctor said at that point, my eyes were very bad. They did cataract surgery a few months ago. 

Now that my bloodwork was back at goal, now, I started having another issue. This was about six months after my cataract surgery. I started seeing this shiny image in my eye every so often. I went to the doctor in August. She said my optic nerve was very swollen, and she was worried. She told me to go for an MRI. I had already done one. Both times, they said there is nothing wrong with the brain. 

At this point, I still haven’t seen a neuroophthalmologist. They gave me an appointment in October and in January, so I am still waiting. It happens to be my eyes have gotten worse in the last two weeks. At first, it was just that. Now, over the last week, there is gray. I can’t see so well. It’s a little bit scary. I really can’t see so well out of my right eye. My left eye is fine. It’s almost worse than when I had the cataracts. 

Even when I did the cataracts, you couldn’t compare one eye to the other because you get one eye done and then the next one. Thank goodness I have two eyes because one is doing most of the work right now.

I had gone to one of your sessions. These last few months, I had the second thyroid eye disease. That is when I decided to go on AIP. Even though I’m at goal, I wasn’t quite sure exactly. Let’s see if I can get rid of it by diet. 

I have been almost two months now on AIP. I am eating tons of greens and trying all this different stuff. You had mentioned some vitamins, so I got Vision to the Max. It has a lot of the stuff you mentioned, like green tea extract, turmeric, and zinc. They are all in this one thing. 

It is just concerning at this point. I have an appointment coming up in two weeks in October. I will hopefully see if the pressure is less. It’s not your typical thyroid eye disease response as far as I can tell. That’s where it’s been a little bit concerning. That’s what pushed me to go speak to you and see what you have to say. 

Dr. Eric: 

You said you chatted with me through one of my sessions. Was it a Facebook Live? 

Malka: 

It was one of the classes. 

Dr. Eric: 

One of the five-day events. 

Malka: 

I asked you a question. I asked you about SDIT to see if you had ever heard of that being helpful. I did six months of that. Overall, I feel so much better in general. My health is better. One of the side effects is constipation. I always had constipation. 

I say the irony of Graves’ is when you’re losing weight, it means you’re sick. When you start gaining it back. All the weight I keep trying to lose, it all comes back. Now, I have been able to lose weight in a healthy way. Overall, I do feel very good on this diet. It’s very hard to find stuff sometimes. I worked it out. 

I also have a gallbladder issue, separately. I can’t eat a lot of meat. That also took a lot of the stuff you could eat, like whole meat and anything fatty. I can eat eggs, but I can’t eat avocadoes. I find oily foods really aggravate my gallbladder. I have had a few gallbladder attacks. I have to be careful. 

I’ve heard there is a connection between hyperthyroidism and the gallbladder. I don’t know if that’s connected. At one point, they wanted to take my gallbladder out. I said I wasn’t doing that. I have just been hyper-careful about what I eat. It’s very hard. I like meat. It’s hard not to eat it. I’m careful with my diet. 

I did hear about you, so I asked you in one of your last lives. 

Dr. Eric: 

As far as the gallbladder, listen to your body. The problem with the gallbladder is it mainly is a bile metabolism problem. It’s not really the gallbladder itself. Just addressing the bile metabolism. I do have some information on my website, NaturalEndocrineSolutions.com. I also have a few interviews on my podcast where I interviewed a few practitioners about the gallbladder and bile metabolism. 

Some people could benefit from bile salts. There are numerous supplements to help support the gallbladder, or the bile metabolism. 

Problems with estrogen metabolism could affect bile metabolism. How do you know if you have problems with estrogen metabolism? Sometimes, a history of ovarian cysts, uterine fibroids, thyroid nodules, a family history of breast cancer could be some indications. Endometriosis. 

There is also a test you might have heard me or others talk about called the DUTCH test. It’s a dried urine test that looks not only at the hormones but the metabolism of the hormones, including estrogen. Something you might want to look into. If you have had numerous gallbladder attacks, try to figure out what the cause of that is. 

Malka: 

Okay. Good to know. It’s secondary, but I think it’s all connected. I personally feel the cataracts are connected. It was interesting because I was looking up on the thyroid eye disease website. What are your risks of having thyroid eye disease? One of them was cataract surgery. Really? I would never have connected that. I feel like my eyes got worse right after my first session. 

I had these experiences where the reflection of the sun on something would bother me so much. Everyone would be like, “It’s totally fine. It’s a fence. Why is that bothering your eyes?” “I don’t know, it’s killing me.” I do think there is a connection. Otherwise, I can’t figure out why I would have cataract surgery at such a young age. I have seen connections between thyroid eye disease and cataract surgery. 

Dr. Eric: 

I have had a few people with cataract surgery and thyroid eye disease. I can’t say it’s a large sample size. This is a little bit unique as far as what I usually work with. 

I know you said neuroophthalmologist. That’s the one in two weeks? 

Malka: 

Yes. The regular doctor- I’ll tell you what was interesting. My first doctor who told me I needed cataract surgery was a doctor who knew about thyroid eye disease. That’s why I went to him. I wasn’t comfortable with him doing my surgery. I wasn’t comfortable with the office. 

I found a separate doctor who was a cataract doctor. I think what happened was when I went in in August, she panicked, and I panicked. I forgot to tell her that I have thyroid eye disease. Had she known, she was looking at it from a cataract point of view. She was just looking to see if it was a dislodged retina. That was her main concern in the beginning. 

When I came home, there is a thyroid issue also. They were very hard to reach. I was waiting to see how I went health-wise to try to see- I wanted to make these appointments. This was a neuroophthalmologist. They said, “You are not a current patient. We will see you in the new year.” January is a long time to wait when my doctor says I needed to be seen yesterday. 

That’s been my struggle. I haven’t been able to make an appointment. There are only five in my area, so it’s hard to find. My regular doctor was like, “You’re going to the neuroophthalmologist. They’ll deal with it.” I haven’t been to the regular eye doctor either. I have an appointment on October 16, so I will hopefully get that pressure checked and see if there has been any improvement. 

Dr. Eric: 

They did say the retina is intact, right? It’s all just swelling. 

Malka: 

Swelling of the optic nerve. 

Dr. Eric: 

That’s good about the retina. They haven’t done anything as far as steroids, prednisone. Not that I’m telling you to take that. 

Malka: 

No. That’s why I’m also not running. When I spoke to my endocrinologist, he called me up to talk to me about it. I called her and told her I was struggling. I was very scared. It was very nerve-wracking. She said that there is this medication. I think it’s called Tepezza. 

Dr. Eric: 

Yep, Tepezza. 

Malka: 

You have to get a shot for eight weeks. I’m looking at the side effects. This is not where I want to go. Even for the things it says it’s for, it says it’s for eye bulging. I don’t have that. I am not having a lot of the symptoms that are typical. The thought of going that way is also what pushed me not to call them every day and ask for an appointment. I don’t want to go on that type of medication. 

I’m okay with going on medication when you need to, but for me, this feels like it’s not going to solve the problem. It will just make 100 other problems. I’m straddling between regular medicine and trying to be more of a naturalist. I’m between the two, I would call it. 

Dr. Eric: 

I agree with the Tepezza as far as, usually, it’s for bulging. Sometimes for double vision. I haven’t had a lot of people take it, but it seems to go well for the bulging. Double vision, hit or miss. For swelling of the optic nerve, I don’t know if that is the approach I would take. For me, it wouldn’t be the approach I’d take. I think it’s wise to speak with the neuroophthalmologist and see what they have to say in a couple weeks.

In the meantime, my guess, I could be completely wrong. Feel free to shoot me an email after your appointment. I’m thinking they are going to give steroids to reduce the inflammation. There is definitely a time and place for that. 

You have done the AIP diet, which is great. It hasn’t completely helped. It helped partially. You’re still having vision problems. There are other natural agents that you could take. Some you might be taking. You’re doing the vision supplement, which is fine. 

As far as helping with the inflammation associated with eye disease, the eye supplements probably are going to have minimal impact. I would say within the next couple weeks, there is definitely some things you could do. We’ll talk about these to help potentially lower the inflammation.

Like I said, there is a time and place for steroids. I don’t love them. You probably don’t love them. Most people don’t. 

Malka: 

Especially now since they told me that I got cataracts from steroids. 

Dr. Eric: 

I understand. 

Malka: 

Keep me away from them. I haven’t been on them yet, and they caused me all these problems. Every doctor I have spoken to doesn’t know why I had cataracts, but the steroids equal cataracts to me. That was already a trauma in and of itself. 

Dr. Eric: 

I understand. You don’t want to play too many games with the optic nerve. 

Malka: 

That’s true. If they tell me I have to do it because it’s getting worse, then I will have to do it. 

Dr. Eric: 

I am not telling you to jump to the steroids. If I were you, I would try to do other things as well. I’m just saying the optic nerve is affected when there is a lot of inflammation, it’s perfectly fine to do things naturally. If things don’t help naturally, that is when you might- Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe they won’t recommend steroids. I’d be surprised if they don’t. 

I don’t think they’ll jump to Tepezza. Like you said, it’s getting infusions every few weeks for a total of eight. They will want to do something quickly. You would have to get approved with your insurance. It’s very expensive if insurance doesn’t cover it. I could be wrong, but I don’t think they will recommend Tepezza. It will be something like prednisone.

As far as what else you can do in the meantime, the basics, which you are already doing as far as eating well, AIP diet. Try to do a good job of managing stress. Try to get sleep. 

Malka:

I am working on sleep. I don’t get a lot of sleep, but I am working on it. I have been trying to exercise. I have been doing smoothies. Mostly green smoothies. Lots of green vegetables. I have changed completely, eating—my favorite food is cake—to enjoying vegetables. I have really tried everything. 

I have been having selenium. I have been eating Brazil nuts to get selenium. I really run the gamut. As far as what I could find on my own. I am ready to write down whatever else you think would be helpful. I am really looking to do whatever will work. 

Dr. Eric: 

Before I forget, exercise. Make sure you don’t overdo it with exercise. You don’t want to overtrain. 

Malka: 

Don’t worry about that. All I do is walk. The truth is, even when I exercise, I always have to watch my thyroid. Even a little bit too much, and my heart starts racing. Even when my thyroid is good, I always have to watch my exercise. If I push too much- I’ve had a few times where my heart started beating very fast, and I couldn’t slow it down. I was really struggling to get it back to normal. I’m always very careful that I don’t do too much. I really listen to my body. 

Dr. Eric: 

Wonderful. Sounds like you’re doing great with that. 

Vitamin D. Make sure you have healthy Vitamin D. If you haven’t tested for it, I would say 25 hydroxy Vitamin D, you want it to be at least 50. Ng/ml is the units. 

Malka: 

Is that D3? 

Dr. Eric: 

D3 is what you would take if you’re deficient in it. D3 with K2. Doing a 25 hydroxy Vitamin D test. If someone is deficient- 

Malka: 

I’m always deficient. I have never not been deficient. 

Dr. Eric: 

Make sure you get those levels above 50. The only way to know is by testing. Some would even say higher for autoimmunity, like 60-80.

Omega-3 fatty acids. I don’t know if you eat fish or take an omega-3 supplement. 

Malka: 

The problem I find with them is they are oily, and I am worried about my gallbladder. The oil part of it is- 

Dr. Eric: 

I get it. 

Malka: 

I can’t eat salmon. I had salmon years ago, and I got salmonella poisoning. Every time I have tried it since then, my body is like, nope. I get sick from it. My body remembers. That was even before Graves’.

I have been having flaxseed, but that’s omega-6, right? Not omega-3.  

Dr. Eric: 

It’s some omega-3. Flaxseeds and walnuts, for example. Chia seeds. They have to convert into EPA and DHEA, which they’re not very efficient in doing. There is also algae oil. Some companies have algae oil supplements, which doesn’t have as much EPA and DHEA as a fish oil but is still better than nothing. At least until you support the bile metabolism. 

Malka: 

That would be the better thing. If I handle this, I could go back to that. 

Dr. Eric: 

There is a company called Omega Quant, where you could do an omega-3 index or a more comprehensive fatty acid panel. You ideally want the omega-3 index to be at least 8%. A lot of people, if they are not eating fish or supplementing, they will be at 4-5%. That is also something to look into. 

The selenium that you mentioned is important. The only thing with Brazil nuts, first of all, they’re not AIP. You are straying a little bit with Brazil nuts. 

Malka: 

Oh really? I thought it said they were on there. 

Dr. Eric: 

No nuts and seeds if you are following strict AIP. 

Malka:

I am not doing AIP. I am doing one of the ones on your list. I am not doing strict AIP. 

Dr. Eric:

From The Hyperthyroid Healing Diet? 

Malka: 

Yeah. 

Dr. Eric: 

You must be doing level 2. 

Malka: 

I am doing one of them. It’s not the real AIP, but I am doing one of them. 

Dr. Eric: 

I eat Brazil nuts. I eat organic Brazil nuts that I get from Costco, and I do like them. But you don’t know how much selenium you are getting from Brazil nuts. Usually, for thyroid eye disease, I will recommend selenium supplementation, so we know how much someone is getting. 

Malka: 

200? 

Dr. Eric: 

Typically, I will recommend 200mcg of selenium. In some cases, I will recommend 400mcg. I won’t put someone on it for too long because of selenium toxicity concerns. The selenium is important. 

There is alpha lipoic acid, which also helps to decrease oxidative stress. NAC can also help with that. I don’t want to make this about pitching my products, but I don’t know if you have seen my thyroid eye disease bundle. 

Malka: 

It’s all the things you recommend basically. 

Dr. Eric: 

Pretty much. It’s at TEDBundle.com if you want to look at it. It has SMT BerbALA, which has berberine and alpha lipoic acid. Alpha lipoic acid helps reduce oxidative stress associated with thyroid eye disease and in general. Berberine has a lot of different properties. There is research studies with both alpha lipoic acid and berberine and thyroid eye disease. Berberine can support the gut microbiome and help with thyroid eye disease. 

There is another supplement called SMT Immune, which also has different ingredients, like curcumin and resveratrol and proteolytic enzymes. If you want to take that, you want to take it away from food, on an empty stomach. That really helps with inflammation. 

SMT BerbALA also helps with inflammation and oxidative stress, as they go hand in hand. It’s not addressing the cause of the autoimmune component associated with thyroid eye disease. Obviously, the prednisone that they will probably recommend isn’t doing that either. It’s just helping to lower inflammation. 

The goal would be either to take the Thyroid Eye Disease Bundle or something similar that is good quality, and see how you do over the next few weeks. See if the pressure reduces. If things are heading in the right direction, maybe you don’t need to take the steroids if that is what they recommend. I can’t tell you not to take them. That would be a decision you have to make. That is the approach I would take. 

Of course, you have attended my five-day events. You’ve read my book. You know it’s about finding and removing triggers and healing the gut, which goes deeper. As far as the short term, trying to get that inflammation down. Those are some things you can do in the meantime. 

Malka: 

I haven’t quite found my trigger. On this diet, I have tried the coconut milk because all the other milks are off. Coconut makes my stomach hurt every time. It’s interesting. You’d think this diet is so limited, but even in there, I can’t handle the coconut milk. I can handle a little bit of coconut, but every time I put coconut milk in something, I get a bad stomachache. I am wondering if that’s a sign of a trigger. I have eliminated 90% of what I usually eat, and this one thing still gives me a stomachache every time I eat it. 

Dr. Eric: 

It’s probably not a trigger. It is a source of fat, so it could be related to the metabolism. Many times, people have to go beyond diet. Even in The Hyperthyroid Healing Diet, the focus is on diet, but there is a section that talks about going beyond the hyperthyroid healing diet. Diet and lifestyle is where you want to start off. It’s great that you have done that. 

If someone is still having autoimmunity, those auto antibodies, the TSIs in the case of Graves’, then they want to do things other than the diet. Not to say to go back to eating the cake that you love, but still to eat healthy and follow the level 2 diet. You can continue following that. 

In addition to that, you might have to do other things, like reduce your toxic load, maybe do some functional medicine testing. You said stress was a big factor when this started in 2020. Maybe do some adrenal testing. I talk about this in great detail. 

Malka: 

Adrenal testing. My numbers are good as far as the doctor is looking at. She says I’m at goal. Everything is within normal range. I don’t know if my numbers of the regular thyroid stuff will even come up. They’re saying I’m fine. I started out at goal. 

My 11-year-old son was just diagnosed with Celiac. When I got my last set of bloodwork done, I asked them to test if I was Celiac. In order to test for Celiac, you have to eat wheat. Once I found out I do not have Celiac, I was able to go on the diet. I didn’t want to go on the diet until I tested my blood to make sure I didn’t have Celiac. Once I found out I don’t have it, then I went on the diet. I have been off of wheat and all this stuff. My numbers are fine. There are other numbers that if I did more testing, you would probably find other stuff.  

Dr. Eric: 

I am talking more about the antibodies in the thyroid. TSH, free T3, free T4, it sounds like those are looking good. I am wondering about the TSIs. If they are still elevated. If not, that’s great. I would think with the thyroid eye disease still being an issue, those would still be- 

Malka: 

I am saying I see the free T3. I am looking through some of my tests. TSH? 

Dr. Eric: 

No, that’s different. It would either be TSI or TRAB. 

Malka: 

Would they have tested that automatically? 

Dr. Eric: 

Not every single time. A regular doctor usually won’t. Usually it’s an endocrinologist, and they won’t test it all the time. 

Malka: 

I think she didn’t test them because she was testing for the Celiac. She didn’t want to do too many tests. She tested my cortisol for me because my friend mentioned cortisol. She said cortisol was also fine. 

Dr. Eric: 

Maybe next time ask about TRAB or TSI. I like TSI better. It’s more specific.

I would focus that Vitamin D. Get the Vitamin D tested. Make sure you have healthy Vitamin D levels. 

Some of the things we mentioned, like you don’t have to take specifically the products in the thyroid eye disease bundle. Just show you have another brand of selenium, which is fine. As long as it’s good quality. 

Those agents that I mentioned, those supplements, the alpha lipoic acid, the berberine, the natural agents that help reduce inflammation, like the curcumin, the resveratrol. I just mentioned a few. I would look to take that approach. Hopefully, that helps with the inflammation. It might not completely resolve it, but if you see it heading in the right direction, hopefully you will be able to avoid the steroids. 

That’s a conversation for you and the doctor to have in a few weeks. Definitely keep me posted. Feel free to shoot an email once you have that consultation. 

Malka: 

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. 

Dr. Eric: 

You’re welcome. Thanks, Malka. Appreciate you doing this audit. Hope you learned some things. Look forward to hearing from you in the near future. 

Thanks, everyone for tuning in, especially those with thyroid eye disease. I hope you found this to be valuable. Even if you don’t have thyroid eye disease, there are some things you can take away from this. Either way, thanks for tuning in. As usual, I look forward to catching everyone in the next episode. Take care, Malka. 

Malka: 

Bye, thank you.

Recently, I interviewed Sara Raymond,  who invites us into the subtle, powerful world of hypnotherapy, where transformation starts beneath the surface. In this episode we discussed her autoimmune struggles coupled with anxiety and addiction has empowered Sara to learn and share how personalized, gentle hypnotherapy can open a door to deep, sustainable healing. You’ll also hear why healing too fast can backfire and why safety and self-compassion matter more than ever.. If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.

Dr. Eric Osansky:
I am super excited to chat with Sara Raymond. We are going to be talking about hypnotherapy. I am excited about this conversation. As I was telling Sara, I actually was searching for a hypnotherapist. I can’t say I was searching too hard, but I wanted a hypnotherapist and didn’t know who to have on the podcast. Glad to have Sara here.
Let me go ahead and go over her impressive bio here. Sara Raymond may just be the compassionate support you’ve been searching for on your healing and personal evolution journey. A hypnotherapist and trauma-informed transformational coach, Sara combines over 20 years of experience as a Pilates, yoga, and meditation teacher with a deep passion for helping people reconnect with their inner wisdom and embrace their inherent fullness.
As the co-founder of the Mindful Movement, Sara has cultivated a global community, offering free meditation and self-hypnosis practices to over 900,000 subscribers on YouTube. Known for her compassionate and authentic approach, Sara brings a wealth of personal and professional insight as a recovering overachiever and perfectionist, creating a safe space for growth and transformation.
Her new book You Are Not Broken: A Compassionate Guide to Uncovering Inner Wisdom and Transforming Your Life with Hypnotherapy provides readers with the tools to release self-doubt, reframe limiting beliefs, and create sustainable, meaningful change. Welcome, Sara.

Sara Raymond:
Thank you. I appreciate it.

Dr. Eric:
If we could dive a little bit more into your background. What led to you first of all becoming a hypnotherapist and then eventually writing your book?

Sara:
I was teaching Pilates and yoga for many years before diving into the world of hypnotherapy. I found myself on the hamster wheel of looking for more training and more credentials and more education to be confident. I wasn’t an impostor in the field. At that point, I had been teaching for at least 10 years. I had lots of experience and lots of training. Logically, I was experienced, and I was good at my job, but the limiting beliefs, the subconscious patterning, had me seeking more and more and more. I couldn’t have told you that at the time.
It had me looking for a way to feel more confident and had me looking for a way to understand myself a little bit better and some of those patterns that had me striving and looking for the perfection and the overachieving tendencies.
At that stage, it really led me to find the answers that I was looking for. This started with meditation and then led to hypnosis. I am just a teacher by nature. What I do and what I find valuable, I typically will end up teaching and sharing with others.

Dr. Eric:
If you could give a definition of hypnotherapy and maybe talk about what differentiates hypnotherapy from other types of- I don’t know if you would refer to hypnotherapy as a type of mind/body medicine like meditation or yoga. If you could define it and distinguish between those.

Sara:
I would put it in the category of mind/body healing. I do take a bit of a somatic approach to hypnotherapy because of my background with working with the body and working with the mind to inform the body. I think there is a lot of wisdom in the body that can be accessed through hypnosis and hypnotherapy.
If I could give a definition, that’s a hard one because it’s kind of broad in that we’re in a therapeutic relationship. Hypnosis is a way to bypass or set aside the logical, conscious, thinking mind, which is where we mostly live as adults. It allows you to access the inner wisdom of the subconscious, of the emotional side of your experience, which is where all of our beliefs live. They live in the subconscious and drive our actions and drive our behaviors.
In order to change a behavior and action, you have to first change the belief that is driving it. Long-winded answer to tell you that the hypnotic or therapeutic experience, it’s giving you the opportunity to access your subconscious mind, to make change.

Dr. Eric:
I assume hypnotherapy, the person has to be a willing participant. You can’t really hypnotize someone if they’re not willing to be hypnotized.

Sara:
Yes and no. Yes, in that if you want to use hypnosis, you have to want to make the change. I couldn’t send my husband to a hypnotherapist to say, “Load the dishwasher differently” because he doesn’t want to do that. People will get in touch with me and say, “I really want my husband to stop drinking. Can you help him?” The answer is no, if he doesn’t want to change, then this won’t work.
But the reason I was saying that you can be hypnotized without wanting to is that when you’re watching a show that has an emotional quality to it, essentially, that is a form of a hypnotic state. When you’re driving home from work on a very familiar route, and you get home and say, “I don’t remember making those last three turns,” you’re still aware, and you’re still safely driving your car, but you’re in a different brainwave state than a highly alert brainwave state. Essentially, there is a bit of hypnosis in there.

Dr. Eric:
That makes sense. Good point, in bringing up alcohol. You have to want to be motivated to give up alcohol. Same thing with smoking. I heard hypnosis can help with smokers, but if they don’t want to quit smoking-

Sara:
And with those in particular, it can be a little tricky because we may say we want to because that’s what we think we should do. If underneath the surface, you really don’t want to, then it still will be really challenging to use hypnosis as a tool to quit smoking or drinking in that case.

Dr. Eric:
What kind of people do you work with? Do you have some people who come to you who want to quit drinking alcohol? Is it more focused on people with stored trauma? Is there a population you see more of?

Sara:
I get a wide variety. Because I offer the free content on YouTube, lots of people find me. There is so much broad content that is available on the channel. Because it is free, and it is available to everyone, it has to be somewhat broad. It can’t be very personalized.
I do get a wide variety. I get a lot of folks who are healing some physical ailment or emotional challenge. I get a lot of anxiety.
If I do get people who are wanting to quit drinking or smoking, it’s usually associated with something deeper. It could be associated with wanting to have a child and having infertility, I should stop drinking because it contributes to the infertility.
Or the drinking could be more related to anxiety, like a coping strategy for anxiety. The real issue is the anxiety. When we can work with the anxiety, then you may not need that coping strategy of drinking alcohol. That’s the approach that I take with some of the clients that come in wanting to quit some substance.

Dr. Eric:
You work with a wide array of people. Do you have a favorite type of client? This person comes in. Obviously, everybody is different, but still. That category of person comes in. I feel really good about being able to help you compared to other categories.

Sara:
I like working with clients who are vested. The clients that really want to do the work, and they are willing to be vulnerable and willing to be brave throughout the process. It’s not one particular issue or situation that I would call my favorite client, but it’s the approach that they take when working on themselves or when trying to help themselves.

Dr. Eric:
You know that my audience consists of those with thyroid conditions. A lot of people with autoimmune conditions. How can hypnotherapy benefit these people?
I talk all the time about blocking out time for stress management, mind/body medicine, incorporate things like meditation, yoga. Some of these people have anxiety, and hypnotherapy can help with that.
Sometimes, anxiety is because of hyperthyroidism. We need to address the hyperthyroidism and lower the thyroid hormones. Also, a lot of these people have stored trauma. Obviously, a lot of people in general have stored trauma. I guess that’s one way that maybe it can help a lot of people who have these chronic health conditions.

Sara:
Absolutely. I think the approach has a lot of layers to the benefits. When I work with clients individually, they all receive a personalized recording. It’s very specific to their needs, their desires, the beliefs that they want to be embodying, the feelings and the qualities. The hope would be that there would be a consistent practice of that recording. It would support, like you said, the stress management. Taking time for yourself to be still, to be quiet, to calm your nervous system. All of these things are happening with the use of the personalized recording. There is that benefit.
I also think that with autoimmune, what I see a lot is, I don’t want this to come off as me blaming or saying it’s someone’s fault. There tends to be lack of self-care at times, which is sometimes around feeling worthy of the time it takes to care for yourself.
I have also experienced thyroid issues, and I have been diagnosed with Hashimoto’s. I am familiar with that. I have an experience of prioritizing work over my self-care and other people’s needs over my self-care. I know that it’s a common tendency.
What I’m getting at is that when you take the time to work through this practice on a daily basis, it’s showing yourself that you are worthy of taking care of yourself. There is this layer of developing- It’s not developing because I believe worth is inherent. We are all humans; we are all worthy. It’s remembering the worth by taking care of yourself and taking the time and prioritizing yourself.
Additionally, we can look at the innate wisdom of the body. It may sound silly in this logical, alert state we are in now, but to close your eyes, be in a calm, relaxed state, and even just ask, what does my thyroid want me to know? You approach it from a very biological way. The physiology of the thyroid. That is important and valuable. You couldn’t manage thyroid without that.
I think the innate wisdom or the messages of the body can also support and bring another layer of healing into the equation that wouldn’t come from the medical world. It’s not a replacement in any way. It’s a support, and it’s another way to be informed.

Dr. Eric:
I agree. I also agree with what you said about prioritizing yourself. That is a question I ask on the questionnaire. A lot of people actually choose that they take care of others before themselves. They don’t prioritize their own health. You really need to do that if you’re going to get better. I’m glad you mentioned that. I think that’s important.

Sara:
Absolutely.

Dr. Eric:
You said you made a personalized recording for everyone. Obviously, you have all the YouTube videos. When someone works one-on-one with you, it’s different because they get that personalized recording rather than just the general videos, which can be helpful. Could they work one-on-one with you remotely, or is it better to work with you in person?

Sara:
Right now, I am only working with clients remotely. There are pros and cons. One of the biggest pros is that safety is so important, and the feeling of safety is important to allow this process to unfold in an effective way. When you can be in your own home, or you can be in a safe place, and I can be on the other side of the screen, I think there is more value in that. It can be very valuable; I wouldn’t say “more value.” It can be very valuable to have that feeling of safety to allow you to go deeper perhaps and understand or uncover more.
Whereas if you had to come into my space, and you have never been there before. Maybe there are noises you don’t recognize or the chair’s not comfortable or whatever it is. It can make things a little bit more challenging for you. Then you have your own space. You can feel safe and really go a little deeper into what’s below the surface.

Dr. Eric:
By working remotely, you can also help people not just all over the country, but all over the world, which I’m sure you do. That’s a great feeling.

Sara:
It’s always fascinating to sit in my home in Maryland and meet with someone in Spain or England or wherever they are. It’s pretty interesting.

Dr. Eric:
Same here. I do telemedicine calls, and it’s always nice. Sometimes, I’ll work with people who are local, but a lot of people from different parts of the country and the world. It’s pretty neat.
Session-wise, this probably also varies depending on the person. Is there a minimum number of sessions people should expect to go through when working with you? Or is it just let’s see how the first session goes and take it from there?

Sara:
Everyone is different. I do have a lot of clients who end up working with me one time. The initial package that I have is a two-hour session, so we talk a lot about past history. We talk a lot about triggers or things that are reactivating old feelings or wounds. I like to get a lot of background information around relationships and family upbringing and dynamics. Within that two-hour session, there is a process that we go through together. It’s a client-centered conversational style of hypnosis. That is all looking at the past, looking at what happened that caused this pattern of behavior or this anxiety or the feeling that you’re experiencing, the issue at hand.
Then there is a healing process that we would go through depending on the individual, what their needs are. Might be some amount of letting go of old beliefs. It may be some amount of self-forgiveness. It could be working with the inner child. Lots of different strategies and approaches for that depending on the individual.
After that, the personalized recording is really looking at moving forward. It’s very forward-looking. It focuses on the beliefs that you do want to have and the feelings and emotions that you want to embody, the qualities that you want to live by. That is meant to be used every day, so you start to have some consistency and repetition of these new beliefs. You’re having to nurture them to fully adopt those beliefs and feelings.
There is a follow-up interaction that we have with some coaching that is a bit of either closure on the topic or that might be a catalyst for the next step, which might look like more hypnotherapy or more coaching. The coaching, I will incorporate some process-oriented techniques. Just depends on the individual.
Lots and lots of people come and work with me for the one package, and they find, not freedom, but a sense of lightness from the issues at hand and the shift they feel happy and content with being enough.

Dr. Eric:
To confirm, the first appointment is two hours. After that appointment, you put together the recording. That is something they will listen to every day. Most people go through a follow-up call with you. After that, it might depend on the person. Some people might be good to go. Some people might need additional support.
Just out of curiosity, is the recording five minutes? 30 minutes? On average.

Sara:
It depends. People always ask me what time of day should I listen? What is the best length of time for a practice? The answer is what is going to be effective for you and what you’re able to consistently commit to. If you came to me and said, “I want a personalized recording,” and I made it 30 minutes because that’s what I wanted. You only set aside 15 minutes a day. You will look at it and say, “I don’t have time for that today,” and keep putting it off. It’s dependent on what each individual can commit to and be consistent with.
I’m sure you give some type of dietary advice or exercise advice when you’re working with patients with thyroid issues. One size doesn’t fit all for those situations. If you were to give a strict vegan diet to everyone, there will be some amount of people who just can’t live like that, or it doesn’t work for them. You have to work with what’s best for that person and what they can commit to.

Dr. Eric:
Is there anybody who wouldn’t be a good fit for hypnotherapy, other than those people who don’t want to make change in their life? Anybody else who wouldn’t really be a good fit?

Sara:
That’s a good question. There is probably lots of mixed opinions about this in the psychology and counseling world. In my experience, anyone who has a tendency to dissociate, that can be very challenging and problematic.
Someone who has a really significant traumatic past, that might be out of my scope of practice. I might pass it along or refer to a psychologist or someone who has more experience with that. Everyone in some capacity has had some thing that we might call “trauma” these days. It’s a very popular phrase, meaning a lot of different things.
My approach is very compassionate. It’s very much intending to meet the person where they are and take a pace that they’re ready for. If you try to heal too fast, or if you try to do anything too fast, or too much, that is essentially another form of trauma. It can reactivate old wounds and old patterns, and that is the last thing we want to do. Healing can be slow. It can be nonlinear. It generally is nonlinear. I tend to take a very slow, compassionate approach, where it’s very client-centered. I want to meet you where you are and move at a pace that is just right for that person.

Dr. Eric:
If someone goes through that initial consultation because you obviously can learn a lot from the person in two hours, and you just feel like, I’m sure, even in advanced cases, you can still offer some value, but if you feel like it’s maybe better for them to work with someone else, I’m sure you would refer them out somewhere.

Sara:
Yes. During this time, my language is always trying to be safe and giving permission to slow down or take breaks. The client is always in the driver’s seat. They are in control of the pace and depth and the direction that they go. If something doesn’t feel comfortable, or something feels unsafe, we are going to stop and work with whatever is available.
In my other profession, in my other side of my career, I work with physical bodies. We are doing movement. The invitation is always to work in a pain-free range of motion. Sometimes, that’s teeny-tiny. Sometimes, it’s much bigger, and there is no pain. If you work through pain, it can cause more pain or more injury. The same is true with the mind.

Dr. Eric:
Makes sense. I will ask you this question. A little bit personal. You’re a yoga instructor, meditation instructor, hypnotherapist. How much time do you personally spend weekly or daily on stress management? Maybe not as much because of your background, and you don’t feel like you need to. I’m just curious if that’s the case. Maybe you only spend a small amount of your time, or maybe because you focus on that, you spend more than the average person.

Sara:
It fluctuates. A fluid amount of time, I would say. Sometimes, if there is more stress in my life, I might need to pull back from work a little bit, or spend more time on my self-care and stress management. Over the years, I guess all of the practice that has been done is building capacity for me. It’s building the ability to recognize when I am in a state of stress or feeling overwhelmed or I have taken on too many things, which is definitely a habit of mine (to say yes to too many things).

Dr. Eric:
Same here.

Sara:
Most podcast hosts who are doing this as a side gig have that tendency. It’s part of your career, not a side gig.
The practice of building awareness of my own nervous system responses and my own stress responses are really important. Years ago, I don’t think I would have recognized that I was feeling stressed or going in the direction of being stressed before it was too much. I think I can see that happening sooner, and I can take steps to manage that.
To answer your question, I don’t have a specific amount of time. I like to do a lot of movement. I like to make the things that I really enjoy practices of mindfulness. I spend a lot of time in the garden, or I have a lot of plants. Obviously, I have a lot. It’s a very calming practice to take care of them and be with that experience. Some of that is my self-care.

Dr. Eric:
Makes a lot of sense. It really varies, depending. If you’re under more stress, it would make sense that you do more from a stress management perspective. It sounds like you’re always doing things and taking care of plants, also very calming, I can imagine. I can’t say I take care of plants on a regular basis.

Sara:
What do you do for stress management? What’s your go-to?

Dr. Eric:
Good question. You’re probably familiar with Heart Math?

Sara:
Yep.

Dr. Eric:
I do deep breathing, and I do sauna. I use the Inner Balance from Heart Math. Can’t say I do yoga. Haven’t really tried it. I tried Pilates actually. I did it years ago. It’s mainly deep breathing, meditation, and Heart Math. I have used apps in the past, like Headspace. I can’t say I do that these days.
Most of my patients don’t use Heart Math. They might do meditation or yoga. Some might do tai chi. Depends on the person. A lot of people just do things like incorporating prayer and walking and other things that are very calming, which is great. I try to do that, too. I get out in nature. Probably need to do more than that.

Sara:
Just being able to recognize what the needs are in that capacity. Sometimes, the self-care is more calming than trying to bring the nervous system into the calm state. Other times, some people will get stuck in that calm state. It’s more of a freeze response. They may need something more high intensity in terms of the movement. It might need to be more vigorous, like kickboxing or jumping on a trampoline or lots of different needs. Being able to recognize what that is is part of the self-care process.

Dr. Eric:
Before we talk about your book, is there anything else that people should know before working with a hypnotherapist?

Sara:
Make sure you feel comfortable with the person. You have some amount of trust, even if you haven’t worked with them specifically before. If there is some way to build rapport, build trust, that would be important to go into the experience feeling safe. Ask as many questions as you need to make sure you can feel safe. Trust that person has the capacity to hold space for you and what you’re going through.

Dr. Eric:
Wonderful. Sara, definitely want you to take a couple of minutes to talk about your book and what people can expect when reading it.

Sara:
The title really is the premise of the book. You’re not broken. The underlying message is one of compassion and acceptance. Not to say that whatever you’re going through will always be. I will just give up. It’s more this is the reality. Let go of the judgment of the reality. With that, the release of the judgment, the release of the feeling broken, is where the healing can take place.
It’s not to say that you have to feel broken or have to have some judgment of your experience in order to take action to do something. You can do that from a place of acceptance and compassion. The healing will be more effective that way.

Dr. Eric:
Is Amazon the best place to get that? Your website?

Sara:
Amazon is great. Any bookstore. You can go to Barnes & Noble. A lot of independent bookstores carry them. Sometimes, they charge a little more because they have higher overhead. Anywhere you buy books, you can usually order it.

Dr. Eric:
What are some ways people can find you? You have a YouTube channel and the podcast that I was a guest on recently.

Sara:
The YouTube channel is a really good starting place. It will give you an opportunity to get to know me, even though we are not meeting face to face. As a practitioner or listener of the videos that I offer, you can start to see my style and energy. It’s really important to build trust with the person you’re working with. This can be a stepping stone to that.
Whether or not you ever work with me, that doesn’t necessarily matter. Starting to build that relationship with me and with yourself is a good place to start. It’s all free. There is 500-some videos to choose from.

Dr. Eric:
All right. Sounds great. Can they also follow you on social media?

Sara:
Most of the content is on YouTube. I’m on Instagram and Facebook, but they’re not the most engaging places where I spend time. TheMindfulMovement.com also has a lot of free resources. There are a couple free courses that are available on that website. Lots of articles that can be useful. Various topics and so forth. There is a lot of information. When did we start? 2016, I think. Years of information to sift through. You will find something that you might resonate with.

Dr. Eric:
Check out Sara’s book. Visit the YouTube channel. Also, TheMindfulMovement.com.
Thank you so much for this conversation, Sara. This was amazing.

Sara:
Thank you. And thank you for taking the time to be on our podcast as well.

Dr. Eric:
That was a lot of fun. Thanks again. Have a wonderful day.

Recently, I interviewed Sandy Kruse,  who endured a total thyroidectomy and survived the exhausting struggle of hyperthyroidism. In this episode we discussed about her difficult recovery, and the moment she realized that truly listening to her body was the key to healing. From experimenting with medications to refining her nutrition, Sandy’s experience offers powerful lessons on navigating thyroid health and more. If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.

Dr. Eric Osansky: 

I am looking forward to chatting with Sandy Kruse. We are going to be talking about thyroid cancer, which is something I have not spoken about on this podcast. This is going to be an amazing conversation. Let me give Sandy’s short but sweet bio here: 

Sandy Kruse is a registered holistic nutritionist, a certified metabolic balance coach, and the podcast host of Sandy K: Nutrition and Lifestyle Queen, now just under 1.4 million downloads. Sandy educates on how we can all age better through living a life of balance, body, mind, spirit, and soul. Welcome, Sandy K. 

Sandy Kruse: 

Thank you so much, Dr. Eric. I’m so happy to be here. 

Dr. Eric: 

I’m happy you’re here as well. This is going to be an exciting conversation. Can’t wait to get into your backstory, which we’re going to do now. I really want you to jump into your background a little bit more. Of course, lead into your thyroid cancer journey. 

Sandy: 

I think it’s important to talk about it from where it began. I do believe that genetics or epigenetics always has a part in everything as it relates to our health. What can trigger these genes to actually express? 

With me, it started when I had my second child at age 35. The first baby was the easy one, and the second one wasn’t. I had a trauma birth. It was really stressful because I wasn’t well, and here I was taking care of a newborn and a toddler. I had a spouse that traveled almost weekly and a baby that had colic and all of the things that a lot of new moms deal with. 

You go to see your general physician, and usually, they check on the baby. What was missing: “Hey, how’s the mom? Is the mom okay?” I really wasn’t okay. I had lost so much weight so quickly. 

It’s difficult to pinpoint exactly when thyroid issues began for me. I kind of had an idea that I had postpartum thyroiditis which was never diagnosed. I had all of the symptoms. I was very different from my first delivery and first pregnancy. I didn’t have enough breast milk. I wasn’t sleeping. I was extremely stressed. I could tell there was something wrong, but I didn’t know what was going on. 

Then fast forward quite a few years later. My baby was five. She was diagnosed with a soft tissue sarcoma. It is a malignant tumor. I can’t even explain what it’s like to have a sick child, but it wasn’t a good time for our family. 

Almost exactly one year after that, I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer. My daughter and I actually had, it was her second surgery and my first surgery to remove my entire thyroid gland and two lymph nodes, one year apart. It was October 2010 and October 2011. 

Then the story begins with what happened afterwards. It wasn’t the simple Here, take one pill, and you will just be great. You will be fine. You don’t need the gland. It definitely wasn’t that. 

Dr. Eric: 

I assume it was a papillary thyroid cancer? 

Sandy: 

Yes. 

Dr. Eric: 

You got the ultrasound. That didn’t confirm the cancer. You got the biopsy after getting the ultrasound. That is when you found out you had thyroid cancer. 

Sandy: 

It was an incidental finding. What happened was I had a migraine with aura. It was the first time in my life. You’re a doctor. Most people who have migraine, usually it starts at around puberty. It’s something that a lot of people deal with their entire life. I had never had one. 

I had a migraine with aura before I was diagnosed, before they did any kind of testing, and I thought I was having a stroke. I was 41 years old. It was visual aura. 

I also had this weird thing. When you research symptoms, a lot of times, a doctor will say, “No, no, there’s no correlation.” I always had this coughing or choking or gagging. I remember even stopping the car once. I had both my kids in the car. You know when it feels like you have saliva that goes down the wrong way, and then you can’t stop coughing? I had so many of those incidents. 

I had a family doctor that wasn’t really big on testing, but he was actually on vacation, and it was a substitute doctor. She was a female doctor. She said, “You know what? It’s weird that you’re having your first migraine ever at 41. Let’s do some testing.” They did do the carotid artery ultrasound to make sure there were no blockages or anything in the brain. They did the MRI. The carotid artery ultrasound, they said it was all clear, but they found five nodules in the thyroid. They were bilateral, so that means on both sides, and only one of the nodules was actually cancerous. 

The way they found that out, which was also rare, as people who have had fine needle biopsies know that they often come back inconclusive. When they did the fine needle biopsy on me, they immediately said “suspicious for papillary carcinoma.” In a way, that was lucky. I know many people who have many of these biopsies that come back inconclusive. You probably know that. 

It was actually pretty quick. It was all within two months that I had my thyroid removed. They suggested to remove the entire gland because in western medicine, they don’t believe you can do things to shrink nodules. Maybe I would have done something different now with what I know now. Having known that only one of them was malignant. They suggested I remove the entire gland because the nodules were bilateral. I had a lumpy thyroid. 

Dr. Eric: 

Very rarely these days do they recommend a partial thyroidectomy. Now there is radiofrequency ablation. Not sure if you’re familiar with that. They can target specific thyroid nodules. When that first came out, I wasn’t really for malignant nodules. Now apparently, some cases of thyroid cancer, at least one of the conversations I had with Dr. Angela Mazza on the podcast, pretty sure she said it could actually help with some cases of papillary thyroid cancer. Back when you got it, I don’t think that was an option. Now potentially in some cases. 

They removed the entire thyroid gland. How was the recovery time? How did you feel after the surgery? A few days later? A few weeks later? 

Sandy: 

I should note that I was with one of the top endocrinologists. I had a neck surgeon at Toronto’s Mount Sinai Hospital. I was there for three days. Now, I think it’s like boom, bam. You’re in, you’re out. I was there from Wednesday-Friday.

The recovery, it’s crazy. The way that they want to give you all of these pain meds. I got home. I was taking extra strength Tylenol, to be truthful. I didn’t think it was such a big deal. Then they gave T3 to me to begin. I actually felt pretty good after I had my thyroid removed. Then they made me go off everything to do the Thyrogen injections. There was a nurse that came to my home to give me two injections from what I recall. I don’t know what the process is now. It’s to test to ensure that none of the gland, none of the tissue is left, that they removed everything. 

That was when the struggles began. They put me on T4 only. They put me on Synthroid. The only reason they put me on T3, which we all know is the active thyroid hormone, right after the surgery was because it has such a short half-life. It exits the body very quickly. Once I was ready to do the Thyrogen injections, I would have none of this hormone left in my body. T4, it can be 4-6 weeks.

Dr. Eric: 

A couple things. Backtracking. You said you saw one of the top endocrinologists, which is important to mention because if someone needs any type of surgery, not just thyroid surgery, again, you probably want to go to someone who has done a lot of the surgeries. I know everybody has to begin somewhere, but still. If I was having thyroid surgery, I would do my research and try to find an experienced surgeon. 

I’m glad you mentioned that. You randomly didn’t choose anybody, or your primary or someone else. Maybe your primary gave you some guidance. Sometimes, they let the endocrinologist just make the decision for them.

I also wanted to ask you, as far as making sure that there was no thyroid tissue left, did you receive any radioactive iodine in addition? You did not? Sometimes I’ll give radioactive iodine after the thyroid surgery. 

Sandy: 

I didn’t need it because I only had the one nodule, and it was small enough that they said you don’t need to have it, thank god. 

Dr. Eric: 

I’m glad you didn’t have to get that. You started with T3. You felt okay. Switched to Synthroid. From there was downhill. 

Sandy: 

It was really downhill. Really bad. I had all the symptoms of hypothyroidism. You name it: hair loss, no energy, weight gain. I had edema, swelling. I could go on. The biggest thing that I’m going to say to anybody who experiences hypothyroidism is this extreme loss of vitality. It’s like the essence of who you are as a person is gone. Everything in your body slows down. I started to experience a lot of that. 

I was hypothyroid for a while, but I kept getting the, “Well, you’re within the healthy range.” We all know that range can be pretty vast. Everybody is so individual. When they made me go off of everything, the last time I had bloodwork, I was at a 32 TSH. I had little kids. That was when I was like, I have to start researching what’s going on in my body. 

This is well before I went back to college for holistic nutrition to understand how all this is interconnected. I was told that I just need one pill. Then I learned about T4, T3. I learned about T1, T2, T3, T4, calcitonin. The thyroid produces so many more hormones than just T3 and T4. It all began with me getting the book Stop the Thyroid Madness. Have you heard of this? Everybody has. 

Dr. Eric: 

Yeah. 

Sandy:

It’s a patient advocacy book. That’s where I began. My stress might be affecting my ability to convert that T4 to the active T3 that I need. Then it was this light bulb moment. I went back to this endocrinologist who is like this well known worldwide- You need to give me T3. He was kind of shocked because nobody was talking about this, and nobody knew about this. Probably 95% of his patients were on T4 only. Then things started to change when I was on a combination of both. 

Dr. Eric: 

Did they even test for T3? You mentioned that your levels were within the healthy range, which the healthy range isn’t the optimal range, as we both know. Many times, they will just do TSH. Sometimes, they will do a T4. Did they all along monitor the T3? 

Sandy: 

They did. I actually checked on this today, on what bloodwork I have access to. I can only go back as far as 2016. They did at Mount Sinai a full panel. They would regularly check thyroid globulin (TG), which I know is important for people who have had thyroid cancer. You want to have almost undetectable TG. If you have TG, that means it could be back. 

Yeah, they did check. In Canada, I know this can be a problem in the US as well. TSH is like all they will check if you go see a general practitioner. If you go to an endocrinologist, with a thyroid problem, if they’re good endocrinologists, they will check TSH, free T3, free T4, TG, other antibodies, depending on what your thyroid issue is. 

Dr. Eric: 

That’s good. When you said that reluctantly he gave you T3, I assumed at that point, they would have done a T3 test. I didn’t know if prior, but it sounds like they did all along. Many times, T3 will be on the lower side but within that lab range. They will still ignore it even though it seems obvious that there is a problem converting T4 to T3. You were on T4, and then both. When you were on both, you felt a lot better. 

Sandy: 

I did. Except I was looking at some of my levels from 2016. For about five years, they suppressed my TSH. I would be at undetectable levels of TSH, so 0. It would be 0. But then there were times that I had pretty severe symptoms of hyperthyroid because of that suppression. There were times that my free T3 levels were above 7. 

Now I’m telling you this. I don’t know if the US labs are the same. It was very high. For a good five years, I had some anxiety and other stuff going on. 

I always find this so funny when they say people lose weight if they’re hyperthyroid. I gained weight. I gained weight because I had so much of that nervous energy that I would constantly be eating. It didn’t matter. I have had some struggles with weight since then, regardless of whether I’m hypo or hyper. 

Dr. Eric: 

You think you were in a hyper state for about five years? 

Sandy: 

About that. My endocrinologist said it was really important during that time, and I don’t know if they do that anymore. As you know, women who are in perimenopause, who are in a hyperthyroid state for too long, can have pretty severe bone loss. 

Dr. Eric: 

That’s what I was going to bring up, if you ever got a bone density scan. Being on that dose for quite a while. 

Sandy: 

Yes. I started to work out. They took me off the higher doses of thyroid meds. They just said that if I’m in a more suppressed TSH state, there is less likelihood that the cancer would come back. That is why they did it. I think they read somewhere that they changed that since for people who have had thyroid cancer because of the bone issue. Yes, I do get bone density tests pretty regularly. I’m still okay. It didn’t do any damage. 

Dr. Eric: 

Glad you get your bone density tested regularly. That’s good. 

I’ve listened to some of your other interviews in preparation for this podcast. Obviously, your background is as a nutritionist, so I want to talk about some of the recommendations as far as protein, for example, intermittent fasting. You also have experience with proton pump inhibitors (PPI), being on the acid blockers. 

Sandy: 

Yeah. It’s a very sore spot for me because I feel, and I have written about this, like I was harmed by being put on those. I started to have infections that wouldn’t heal. I don’t even know if I want to talk about it here. They sent me to a gastroenterologist. This was shortly after I was on T4 only. 

Remember how I was saying everything in the body slows down when you’re in a hypothyroid state for a long time. Healing slows down. You can have a lot of weird things go on in the body because your body is not able to heal. Everything is just downgraded. 

I was sent to an endocrinologist. I never had GERD or any kind of heartburn or anything. They put me on a PPI and said I had too much acid in my stomach without any kind of tests. I became addicted to this PPI. There is something called a rebound effect. I have been on it probably for about 10 years. I went through states where I was borderline anemic. I had ferritin levels as low as 6. For those of your listeners who know what ferritin is, it’s your iron stores. 

I had such a severe rebound effect that I thought I was having a heart attack. That was when I started to have severe GERD. It was only after I was trying to get off of the PPI. I did everything I could. I went off of it for a year. When I did, and they did the scope, they said I had Barrett’s esophagus. Then they told me, “You better get on that PPI again. Otherwise, now, having had thyroid cancer, you’re at risk for esophageal cancer.” I went back on the PPI.

By the way, I had done everything as it related to diet, lifestyle, all of those things to get rid of the heartburn when I went off of the PPI. None of it worked for me. Nothing. I tried weaning. I tried everything that was recommended. Nothing worked. There are some genetics in there that I think might play a part in this. I have family members who have similar issues. 

When I went back to college, which I was 46, it was with the Canadian School of Natural Nutrition. I then started to wean off but so slowly. Still today, I am on an over-the-counter dose of 20mg of Nexium. But I was on very high prescription doses. I consider that a win. 

The way that I prevented becoming anemic all those years was by, I call it faking my own digestion. I started taking digestive enzymes with butane HCl. Then I started to take additional butane HCl. 

Of course, we know there are contraindications. This isn’t advice for anybody. If you have an ulcer, you can really exacerbate your issues. I didn’t. I had very low stomach acid. Still to this day, I take high doses of HCl, and I take a digestive enzyme with every protein meal. That’s how I’m keeping my mineral balance. We all know, without stomach acid, things can go downhill over the course of- I have been on PPIs for about 10 years or more. 

Dr. Eric: 

That’s a long time. You said at one point your ferritin was a 6? 

Sandy:

Yes. 

Dr. Eric: 

I assume you monitor your iron levels. More recently, they are a lot better? 

Sandy: 

When I was doing the butane and still menstruating- This is important for your female listeners. If you are still menstruating, that has a big effect on ferritin. I had other issues with estrogen dominance. I had so many things that were going on in my 40s, and I had no one who could really help me. That is one of the reasons I went back to college. 

While I was still menstruating regularly, I would probably sit at about 15-16. If I got up to 20, that was a real win for me. Now, I actually just did bloodwork. I’m sitting at a 39. I’m now in menopause. One year of no periods, technically textbook, now I’m in menopause finally, at 55. 

Dr. Eric: 

You have never been vegan, vegetarian. Even when your levels were low, you were always eating meat? 

Sandy: 

Well, yes. I was always eating meat. This is all relating to the weight side of it. What the heck? I didn’t even know my body anymore. I’m a small person. I’m only 5’2”. What’s happening? I can’t eat this way. 

I think for me, it was almost like this double whammy of perimenopause and no thyroid gland. It was a double whammy for me. There was a time that I thought, oh, maybe raw food is the answer. Maybe becoming more vegetarian. I was never vegetarian. Never. But I avoided more animal protein at one time. These are all little stints. 

I have done many diets. I have done low carb, keto, intermittent fasting. I have done a lot of these things in the end. It’s all about the balance. 

Dr. Eric: 

Agreed. Definitely want to chat with you about intermittent fasting because that’s a hot topic these days and over the last few years. I don’t have anything against intermittent fasting. Sometimes, it can get extreme. Even sometimes 16-8 fasts are too much for some people, let alone 18-6. I’m talking about regular people who are doing it on a daily basis. “I am going to go 20 hours and have a four-hour eating window or six-hour eating window.” I’d like to hear your thoughts on intermittent fasting. 

Sandy: 

The biggest thing I’m gonna say is I became insulin-resistant while I was intermittent fasting. How is that possible? I was 52. This was the first year that I went from regular cycles to I only had four periods that year. That was the year that estrogen dropped, that I started to experience hot flashes. I was still intermittent fasting, listening to the Maniverse. Sorry, no offense, Eric. I call it the Maniverse. 

Dr. Eric: 

No offense taken. 

Sandy: 

You know, I’m like, I was treating my body almost in a robotic way as opposed to listening to my body. If you go back to my history, I have some issues with cortisol. Maybe my resiliency to the stress it was causing me is not as strong as your resiliency. We’re also bioindividual, and we just need to listen to what makes sense for us. 

I think intermittent fasting is fine for some and not fine for others. Now, the only thing I will do is 12 hours overnight. I don’t eat late at night. I don’t snack. 

As you know, I became a certified metabolic balance coach. The reason I did that was they said, “You do the program. You’re recording with us. You gotta learn.” Okay. I did, and I learned so much about what was going on with my insulin sensitivity right in the latter stages of perimenopause. Then I learned this isn’t suiting my body. 

Of course, I started to research my own genetics and predispositions for type 2 diabetes. I have quite a few. I don’t have a thyroid gland to boot. I really have to look at all the variables. 

I hope people don’t get confused by this. When you really tap into what makes sense for your body, you can thrive. No matter what, without a thyroid, with a thyroid that is maybe not working so great, but you can. 

Dr. Eric: 

I definitely agree. I love what you say about listening to your body. I’m sure there are people who are doing intermittent fasting and are thriving. There are also those who don’t feel good. Maybe they should eat at 7am and do a 12-hour fast. Stop eating at 6pm/7pm. We are not saying to eat at 10pm. 2-3 hours before going to bed, I would recommend not eating. If you’re hungry first thing in the morning or an hour after eating, I agree with you. 

No snacking. Even that, it’s different. I’m more with you. A lot of people snack for the sake of snacking. If someone is dealing with hypoglycemia, or if someone is hungry, that’s a sign that they are not getting enough protein. If you really feel like you need a snack, that’s not a different conversation because it is tied into this, but there could be a reason why some people feel like they need a snack in between meals. I think we’re on the same page.

Sandy: 

This was when I was 47 or 48. I’m getting close to menopause. Better start working out. I started working out. I would lift pretty heavy at times. Then I was very much into taking in a lot of protein. 

That’s the other thing. You hear a lot of these doctors saying, “You must have this much protein in every single meal,” or “this much per day,” or whatever. How can you say that? How can you say that when you have no idea what Sandy Kruse is doing? How can you say I need this much protein? That’s why I’m always about the balance. Yes, we need protein, but we need protein to suit our body and our needs and our lifestyle. I do think too much protein is not great for longevity. 

Dr. Eric: 

Like you said, it depends on the person. Hopefully everybody who is listening to this is on the more active side, exercising. Those who can do resistance training. Some might be healing and not ready for that yet. There is a time and place for more protein. But I agree. 

There are people who are not getting enough protein. On the other side, there are people who are overloading and struggling to get enough protein. There are different units of measurement, but experts talk about 1g of protein per lb of body weight. If someone weights 120lbs, which isn’t really heavy, they would need to eat 120g of protein. If someone is 180lbs, they would need to get 180g of protein, which is a lot of protein and not easy to do. 

Sandy: 

There are ways you can do that. I remember when I was working out more heavily, I would do amino acids. Not protein powder because we know a lot of protein powder has a lot of garbage. It is hard to find a really clean protein source.

You know what I am starting? Collagen. I am starting to take that every day. A big thing that happens to a lot of women when your estrogen starts to decline is you start to get a lot of these aches and pains and joint problems. You know this. Menopause can really trigger a lot of these not so great things that go on with the joints in your body. I am doing a collagen powder, but a very full spectrum collagen. 

Dr. Eric: 

Okay. Like a whole-body collagen? 

Sandy: 

You know the one I’m doing is Dr. Josh Axe’s Ancient Nutrition. I like it. 

Dr. Eric: 

I’m not familiar with the ingredients, but I know he has his bone broth powder. 

Sandy: 

Yeah, it’s clean, and he uses a marine collagen. He uses a bovine, very clean. He doesn’t use erythritol. I am not a fan of erythritol as a non-caloric sugar replacement. No thanks. 

Dr. Eric: 

Do you like any sugar substitutes, like stevia or monk fruit? 

Sandy: 

I think I have been damaged honestly. I used to be so robotic in everything I did, to be truthful. It never served me. When I was keto, I would only take in Swerve. Do you have that in the US? 

Dr. Eric: 

Doesn’t ring a bell.  

Sandy: 

It’s a mix of erythritol with other non-caloric sweeteners. Then I would take in erythritol. I don’t mind stevia. I don’t like monk fruit. I feel like a lot of these non-caloric sweeteners are more processed than just having- I prefer to use a raw organic coconut sugar. It’s better for your glycemic index. Less processing than erythritol. I know a lot of people like monk fruit, but my gut can’t take it. I think that’s the key. Sugar alcohol can kill you as it relates to the gut. It depends.

I remember I was baking. I can’t eat sugar, so I’d be baking almost every day. What am I going to bake today with erythritol? It wasn’t good for me. Now, I will use date sugar. I have used coconut sugar. I will use raw unpasteurized honey, or I will use pure organic maple syrup. Those are the things I will stick to.

Then if you need a granulated sugar, a raw turbinado sugar, something like that. That’s it. I’m not going to use all of the non-caloric stuff. It doesn’t make me feel good. Not that I eat a lot of sugar anyway.  

Dr. Eric: 

Makes sense. I agree with especially the honey and maple syrup in moderation. Not everybody, but for many people, good option. When I have green tea, herbal tea, I was guilty years ago of adding stevia to it. Now, I just have them plain. I don’t add anything. I don’t even add honey or maple syrup. I just have it like it is. 

Sandy: 

Me, too. If I have some sort of flu or something going on, then I will have a teaspoon of honey. Who cares? Sure. It will raise my blood sugar, but I won’t worry about it because my body needs it. 

Dr. Eric: 

There you go. Hopefully you don’t have to do that too often. 

Sandy: 

No. 

Dr. Eric: 

Before we wrap it up, I did want to ask you about spore-based probiotics, Akkermansia. I heard a conversation you had. I am more of a Lactobacillus/Bifidobacteria person as well. I am still skeptical a little bit with spore-based probiotics. 

As far as the research, there is more research with the Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium. When someone is exclusively taking a spore-based probiotic, to me, it’s because they heard another practitioner but also the company hype them up, which I understand. If they sell them, I get it. It’s a business. 

I’d like to get your thoughts on spore-based probiotics as well as Akkermansia. There are now supplements available. I think it’s just one company that offers it. 

Sandy: 

Pendulum. 

Dr. Eric: 

Yep. 

Sandy: 

Here is the interesting thing about spore-based. I am born in Canada, but my parents are Croatian. They lived on the farms. My dad is going to be 88. We are talking old-school. My mom will be 79. I love to listen to their stories. How they grew up on the farm. What they did. How they lived. How they grew their crops. How they reared their animals. All that kind of stuff. I find it fascinating. it’s like looking at the blue zones and coming up with a modern way to live.

If you look at how farmers lived, sure, they would get spore- and soil-based probiotics. Usually, it would be entered through the air when they’re doing their farming. Maybe there would be some residue left on their produce. They’re not ingesting giant amounts of spore and soil-based probiotics normally. 

The way that I look at it, in my little brain, Eric, it doesn’t make logical sense to me. I don’t care about the company that is doing all these big advertisements. I truly don’t care. I look at what is logical to me. Maybe getting a little bit is okay. What do we have in our gut? What is it, a trillion different bacteria in our gut? Give me some of the human strain that I may be lacking because of the environment that I live in and maybe the food quality that I have access to. Give me some of the human.

The other thing is proliferation. From what I have researched on spore-based, they can really proliferate in the gut. 

Dr. Eric: 

Can they? I know the Lactobacillus and Bifido, you have to keep on taking them. 

Sandy: 

Right. But spore-based, I believe the research, and you can check on this because I am not definitively saying, pretty sure they can proliferate. Do I want that? Let’s look that up to confirm. I’m not 100% sure. 

Dr. Eric: 

I will do some research. 

Sandy: 

We all know the Lacto, Bifido, those are transient. I have done some research on L. reuteri though. Apparently there is more to come on L. reuteri. I don’t know if you have ever made your own yogurt. I tried, and it was a fail. I will try again. Some strains can proliferate, but a lot of these human strains that we are taking from the bottle don’t. They are transient. 

As for Akkermansia, I took it for a short period of time. It’s all in this marketing stuff. I have no loyalty to any of these supplement companies that we’re talking about. I took Akkermansia according to- I think it was a two-month protocol that I did. Some of the advertising that is out there saying it acts like a GLP1 and can help with your weight. I saw nothing, zero. Maybe there is other factors in there. We don’t know for sure. I saw nothing. 

The research that I did on Akkermansia is that you don’t want too much of it. It can actually do the opposite for your intestinal barrier that you want. 

Too much of anything, I’m like off of it. I did do a protocol. Have you heard of Vitract? It’s a gut test. 

Dr. Eric: 

I don’t think so.  

Sandy: 

I think they test for Akkermansia. I think the GI Map does, too. 

Dr. Eric: 

It does. 

Sandy: 

I do know that they often will recommend to test your gut for Akkermansia first. Too much isn’t good. What can I do? How about I eat fermented foods? My parents still ferment their own cabbage, like very old school, in a big barrel. They do it every winter. I just tell my mom to make me some cabbage rolls. It’s the best. 

So eat it. Preferably eat it. Eat prebiotics. Eat postbiotics. Eat probiotics. The way you do that is to eat a variety of foods. Then supplement with a human strain. That is very simple, but that is how I do it. 

Dr. Eric: 

There you go. I love it. Very helpful. We covered a lot of different topics here. Is there anything else I should have asked you that I didn’t ask you? Anything else you want to say before we wrap it up and tell people how to find out more about you? 

Sandy: 

I don’t know if you have a lot of female listeners, but it’d be useful. 

Dr. Eric: 

I do. 

Sandy: 

You do? We might have to do another episode on menopause when you have thyroid issues. I have done a ton of research. This will be too long for me to get into. We are talking about how estrogen affects the thyroid. I just came off a very hyperthyroid state, which I haven’t been in for so long, just because I took seven keto DHEA. It was recommended to me for cortisol regulation. There is a lot.

I think this was a good place to start. I think that people have to know that there is a way to come back. When you get in touch with your own body and go, “I don’t feel right,” you have to learn how to advocate for yourself. 

I am on four different thyroid meds. Three different thyroid meds, four different doses. I work with my endocrinologist just to make sure that my balance is optimized.

Dr. Eric: 

Makes sense. I didn’t ask you, or maybe you brought it up. Have you taken desiccated? 

Sandy: 

I am on it. 

Dr. Eric:

You said you have four different doses. T4, T3, and along with that, are you rotating that with desiccated? 

Sandy: 

I am on two different doses of T4, and it changes. Recently, it changed again because of the whole DHEA debacle. We won’t get into that here. Yes, I take two different Synthroid. I take Cytomel. I take a desiccated every day. 

Dr. Eric: 

Sounds like it’s working for you, which is great. You’re feeling better. I’m sure your numbers are looking a lot better. We will definitely have to get you back on the show to talk about menopause and share your story as well. Would love to have another conversation with you, Sandy. Thank you so much for being on.

If you could let others know where they could find you. You have your own podcast and also a Substack. 

Sandy: 

For my podcast, just go to SandyKruse.ca. There, you’ll find all the links to my podcast, where you can find it, where you can listen. My podcast is now over five years. It’s all about wellness as we age. It’s really body, mind, spirit, soul because I am a big believer that we are not robots, and we all need to understand our bodies better in order to age better. The goal is really how can we optimize that and try and not get one of these nasty diseases that a lot of people are getting in their midlife years? That’s my podcast. 

I am a writer as well. I released my essential thyroid guide last year. That was self-published on Amazon. It’s called The Essential Thyroid Guide. It is 100% not a clinical guide. It is a patient advocacy guide. It’s simplified, so you can understand all the factors that can affect your thyroid health.

I also have Substack, where I write a lot of short explorative essays, where you can think about things as they relate to your own health. You don’t make mistakes. I have made a lot of them by listening to all of these health gurus out there. You really need to decipher resonance for yourself. 

Dr. Eric: 

I agree. I told you before we started, I signed up for your Substack and listened to your podcast. I also was interviewed by you. Highly recommend the podcast, the Substack, and definitely check out her essential thyroid guide on Amazon. 

Again, thank you so much, Sandy. This was a great conversation. Really appreciate you sharing your journey with thyroid cancer. 

Sandy: 

Thank you so much, Eric. I really appreciate meeting you and you having me here today. 

Dr. Eric: 

Same here. The feeling definitely is mutual. 

Sandy: 

Thanks. 

Recently, I interviewed Jenny,  our thyroid health audit participant, who shares her journey with Hashimoto’s and secondary infertility, two challenges that often go hand in hand but are rarely talked about together. In this episode we discussed how addressing root causes, not just lab numbers—can open new possibilities for healing and conception, and more. If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.

Dr. Eric Osansky: 

Welcome to another Save My Thyroid audit. I am very excited to chat with Jenny here. She will talk a little bit about her health journey. How are you doing today, Jenny? 

Jenny: 

I’m doing well, thank you. Appreciate the opportunity to meet with you. 

Dr. Eric: 

Thank you as well for doing this. We were chatting a little bit before this, and you filled out the application I have everybody do, so I can get an idea of your health challenges. 

You were recently diagnosed with Hashimoto’s. The biggest challenge is dealing with infertility. Can you give a little bit of that background? When were you diagnosed with Hashimoto’s? As far as the infertility, you received IVF as well, so if you could talk about that. 

Jenny: 

Certainly. My spouse and I are navigating secondary infertility. We were able to have one child naturally. We went to try to have a second child and were not able to. After a while of trying, I had reached out to my OB to get some potential bloodwork done. They look at your ovarian reserve, your TSH, and something else. 

At that point, my TSH was in the normal range, but from my understanding, it was higher than what they wanted to see for somebody who was trying to conceive or pregnant. From what I learned, that range may not be the most accurate range in terms of TSH functioning. 

At that point, I was put on levothyroxine. I took that with hopes that maybe that would be the magic thing to get my TSH down, and then I could get pregnant. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen. 

We eventually got referred to a reproductive endocrinologist. At that point, we did a lot of bloodwork. Within that wasn’t a full thyroid panel, but it did include TSH again and TPO antibodies, which were high. That was a little over a year ago. 

No one told me, “You have Hashimoto’s.” No one said there was any concern with my thyroid. They just said something like, “There has been a little damage to your thyroid. That’s all. It’s unlikely that your thyroid is impacting your ability to conceive.” 

We continued to do interventions. We did several IUIs. They were unsuccessful. We went to do IVF as well. That was unsuccessful. That’s another topic, and it was really devastating. We realized we must be missing something. Something was off. 

I had done a lot of research on thyroid through this process. Was it worth introducing supplements, working to get rid of toxins, changing my diet, stress management. As you can imagine, it’s really hard when you’re doing IVF. “Don’t be stressed,” but it’s one of the most stressful things ever.

I met with an endocrinologist this summer. Pretty off the bat, she was like, “You have Hashimoto’s, mild hypothyroidism.” I also have a family history of this. My dad has Hashimoto’s. My paternal grandmother. I don’t know if she was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s, but there were issues with her thyroid. She had a goiter, so I’m pretty sure she had Hashimoto’s. 

Then I went into a deeper dive. I have to figure this out. What can I do to support my thyroid? Consulting with some of your work, some other folks and their work as well. 

Dr. Eric: 

When you did your research, is that how you came across me? Did you come across my website or book? 

Jenny: 

I came across your book and website around the time I did that initial bloodwork with my OB. They were talking about thyroid. I was like, “Okay.” My mission is to have a baby. I have to do everything I can. My dad pointed me in your direction. He has an extensive library of thyroid books and resources. 

Dr. Eric: 

Glad he found me and referred you to me. 

When they first tested TSH, sounded like it was within the lab range but higher than optimal. They didn’t look at thyroid hormones. They just put you on levothyroxine based on the TSH alone. Eventually, they retested the TSH. It sounds like they still didn’t do a full thyroid panel, just TSH and TPO antibodies. Then they saw the TPO antibodies were high. Do you know if they tested the TG antibodies, which are also associated with Hashimoto’s? 

Jenny: 

No, I don’t have any bloodwork for that. I haven’t had a full panel done. I had asked my endocrinologist about that and was met with just looking at the TSH and TPO antibodies. They didn’t feel like we needed to test T3 or T4. 

From some of my more recent research, and maybe this is a question with you, I am hoping to do a bit more advocacy for myself to try to get a full panel done. I feel like that would be helpful, even if they are not considering it on their side of things, just for me to have an understanding of where I’m at and with a strong desire to reduce my antibodies. 

Dr. Eric: 

When it comes to testing TG antibodies, I could understand why they’re not doing it. It won’t change their approach. They will give thyroid hormone replacement regardless, the levothyroxine. 

I think it is crazy for them not to look at thyroid hormones just because maybe you’re taking the levothyroxine, which is T4, but T4 has to convert into T3. It’s not always reflected with the TSH. The T4 influences the TSH more. For all we know, the T3 might be on the lower side, even if the TSH is looking better with levothyroxine. T3, being the active form of thyroid hormone, if that is on the lower side, that definitely can affect conception. 

If you can’t get it through your doctors, I would pay out of pocket. I realize you have already spent who knows how much money on the IVF. Depending on where you go, if you go to some walk-in labs, they might charge you over $100. If you shop around, you can get it for like $30-40, TSH, free T3, free T4. Not a full thyroid panel with antibodies, but at least a look at the thyroid hormones. 

Make sure that T3 is optimal. I do see a lot of people with Hashimoto’s where that T3 is on the lower side. Definitely want to look into that. 

Like I said, the TG antibodies, for the sake of what they do, I could understand not testing. Actually, on the podcast, I interviewed a few healthcare practitioners who talked about fertility. Based on my own research, too, when you have low thyroid, that could affect conception. The antibodies could also increase the likelihood of having a miscarriage. It doesn’t mean that you will have a miscarriage, so it’s nice to get those antibodies tested to see. 

Maybe you just have TPO antibodies, and TG antibodies look fine. If that’s the case, you won’t need to retest those again necessarily. If they’re both high, and the goal is to eventually normalize them, which is my goal when working with someone, then I would say it’s a good idea to retest. But test it first, since you haven’t tested it at all yet. 

The priority would be T3 and T4. Then same thing. If you had to, you could pay out of pocket for the TG antibodies as well. It’s unfortunate that most doctors, including endocrinologists, will just look at TSH. Some will do a TSH and T4. As I just mentioned, you do want to make sure you are converting T4 to T3. 

You might have heard of reverse T3, which sometimes can be helpful, too. Like I said, I realize you have already spent a lot of money. Reverse T3, some people really think highly of it. Everybody with Hashimoto’s should get reverse T3, they say. I do try to include it. 

To me, it wouldn’t be the priority. When we prioritize the blood test, TSH and thyroid hormones are the priority. Antibodies are important. Reverse T3, kind of on the back end. If you can get that done, great. If you can’t get that done, usually we could look at the other numbers and get a good idea of what’s going on. 

Jenny:

If my T3 is lower, the recommendation would be to shift what medication I am on? 

Dr. Eric: 

Yes. If you are having a problem converting T4 to T3, ultimately, you want to try to address the cause of the problem. While doing that, you might choose to take T3. 

There are a few different options. They probably would recommend synthetic T3, something like Cytomel. There is also desiccated thyroid. A lot of doctors aren’t big fans of that, especially during pregnancy. Things like Armour or NP Thyroid, which have T3, T4 as well as T1 and T2, which are less well known. They would probably recommend synthetic T3. 

Another option is compounded thyroid hormone. You go to a compound pharmacy and get T4 and T3. 

You would want to address the cause of the problem, too. Approximately 60% of the conversion from T4 to T3 takes place in the liver. Another 20% takes place in the gut. 

Sounds like you have already done some good things for your health, like working on diet. Stress also could affect that conversion. Having higher cortisol could impact the conversion of T4 to T3. If you have to take the T3 to help with the conception, that is fine. You want to ideally identify the cause of the conversion problem and then address it. 

Jenny: 

Certainly. That’s where I feel like I’m so close yet so far away at the same time with figuring out the root cause. My TPO antibodies went up by 400 over the last year. I thought I was doing all the stuff I needed to do to help support my thyroid. Granted, I was under a high level of stress. I was taking a lot of medication for infertility reasons. They were working to reduce inflammation, but I still had a lot of inflammation happening because of all of that. 

I was really disheartened when I asked to get my TPO antibodies rechecked recently and saw they had increased by 400. I was so hoping the opposite. 

Dr. Eric: 

It can be challenging to lower and normalize the antibodies. It’s not uncommon for them to rollercoaster back and forth, which can make it challenging. Let’s say you test antibodies again in a few months. If they decrease greatly, again, sometimes can be misleading. Obviously, that’s what we ultimately want to see. 

It sounds like something might be missing. Diet and lifestyle, very important. It’s a piece of the puzzle. If you have my book Hashimoto’s Triggers, there are a lot of triggers. Food is one. Stress is one. There are a lot more, too. It could sometimes take some extensive detective work, depending on the person. That’s the next question: Have you done any functional medicine testing at all? 

Jenny: 

No, I haven’t done any functional medicine testing. I’m interested in that. I was in such an urgency to have a child and wanting children close together and got pushed in a variety of directions into the more medical route. I do feel like that would be beneficial for me, and I’m hoping to do that. 

On my own, I have really worked on foods I’m eating or not eating. One big thing has been balancing my blood sugar. I was always super hangry, and that has gotten a lot better.

I am taking a lot of supplements. Some of that is good; some of it is frustrating. I don’t want to move through my life taking this many supplements. Some of them I don’t even know if they are doing anything or not. Either they were recommended for infertility reasons or suggested in some thyroid resources I found. 

I’ve had gut issues throughout my life. They’re a lot better now. I don’t experience that as frequently. I feel like I’ve had a lot of growth there. 

I have no idea how my liver is doing. I know the liver functioning is important, and there can be a lot of buildup there. I wonder about that. 

I feel like I’m going off from your initial question now about functional medicine. Here I am telling you all the things I am trying to do so far. I’ll stop here. 

Dr. Eric: 

No, that’s okay. Getting back to the liver. When you do a basic blood test, like a comprehensive metabolic panel or hepatic panel, they are looking at liver enzymes, AST, ALT, sometimes GGT. That doesn’t really look at the function of the liver. 

If those levels are low, that is what you want. If they’re higher, that means there is some type of damage. I see that more with my hyper patients when they are taking antithyroid medication for example. The levothyroxine wouldn’t do that. 

That doesn’t tell us how you’re detoxifying, what your toxic burden is. There is really not a great test to look at our toxic burden. You can do testing to look at heavy metals. You can do other tests to look at other types of environmental toxins. 

In that respect, I would say definitely do as much as you can to minimize your exposure to environmental toxins. Even without knowing levels of heavy metals and other environmental toxins, they might do liver detox, and that is hugely harmful. Sometimes, it can cause certain side effects, like die-off effects. 

The supplements, I definitely recommend supplements, but that is one reason I do testing. There are some general supplements, like omega-3 fatty acids, probiotics. Depends on the person. We want to do testing to see what imbalances someone has. My guess is you probably had at least some blood testing, like Vitamin D. I’d be surprised if they didn’t look at Vitamin D levels. 

Jenny: 

I did have Vitamin D. That’s fine. Vitamin D, iron, B12, magnesium. 

Dr. Eric: 

How did your iron look? Another challenge is hair loss, which could be related to the thyroid but also nutrient deficiencies. I don’t know if you remember your iron numbers. Like the thyroid, they might be within the lab range but outside of the optimal range. 

Jenny: 

I don’t have the specific numbers in mind, but I believe it was fine, within the lab range. I also had some resource that I was consulting, more functional medicine. It seemed like it fell in that range, so that wasn’t a concern.

My B12 was really high. 

Dr. Eric: 

I assume you’re not a vegetarian, that you eat meat? 

Jenny: 

Yeah, I do. 

Dr. Eric: 

If you ate a meal higher in B12, whether it was beef or something else the night before. If you are taking a B12 supplement, you probably are taking a prenatal? This has not only folate but B12. 

Jenny: 

Yes.  

Dr. Eric: 

I usually don’t get too concerned when I see B12 high. It is common on a blood test. When that is low, that could be an issue. When it’s high, it’s usually because you are getting exposed to it either through the diet or supplementation. 

There is another marker called methylmalonic acid, which is a better indicator of B12 status. Usually not tested by most doctors. That might be something to look into if you’re concerned about that.

With diet and lifestyle, what you’re doing as far as trying to eat a whole, healthy foods diet. 

The stress is huge. I know you’re doing things to manage your stress. I would continue on an everyday basis. That doesn’t mean that you have to spend an hour per day on stress management. Consistency is important. Just because some people will maybe do yoga 2-3 times a week, and that’s it. You really want to be in the routine of stress handling. 

How is your sleep at night? 

Jenny: 

My sleep is generally okay. That’s one of the areas that I’m more recently focusing on. I have to acknowledge, I didn’t sleep as great last night because I was nervous about this conversation and being recorded. I kept waking up thinking about what I was going to say. Generally, I can fall asleep fine. 

I do think with balancing my blood sugar, at least a piece of it has supported me in waking up not as groggy. I don’t know for sure. I think just energy-wise, I am feeling better. 

I do have a Fitbit that tracks my sleep. I always have a very high level of light sleep and not much deep sleep.  

Dr. Eric: 

Okay. A lot of light sleep and not enough deep sleep. That’s something to work on. You haven’t had your adrenals tested, I assume? 

Jenny: 

No. 

Dr. Eric: 

Also something to look at. There are a few options with that. Saliva testing is really good for looking at adrenals. 

A lot of functional medicine practitioners would recommend DUTCH testing, if you are familiar with that, for someone who is struggling with fertility. That looks at adrenals, sex hormones, and the metabolism of the hormones as well as some other things. That might be something in the future that you want to look into. Have you heard of DUTCH testing? 

Jenny: 

I’ve heard about it. I don’t know too much about it. The name is familiar to me. 

Dr. Eric: 

Especially if someone is focusing on fertility, most practitioners of functional medicine recommend a DUTCH test. Not everyone. Some might just recommend saliva testing for adrenals and testing sex hormones in the blood. The thing is, you can’t look at the metabolism of the hormones in the blood. Still, I can’t say the DUTCH test is absolutely necessary, but the more information you get, the better. I would look into that. 

You have already done some tests through the blood. You mentioned iron and B12 and magnesium. Magnesium in the blood, they often look at serum magnesium. RBC magnesium is better than that. Sometimes, you have to take what you get if you are running it through insurance. I understand that. 

You mentioned the gut. You said the gut used to be a big problem, but not as problematic. Maybe you don’t need to do gut testing, like a comprehensive stool panel. You could always start conservatively. It’s really up to you. Some women understandably, especially if they have gone through IVF and want to do everything they can- 

I tend to be on average more on the conservative side with the testing. Not to say that you need to spend thousands of dollars on functional medicine testing. In this situation, since you did have a history of gut issues, and you can’t always go by symptoms, you might want to dig a little bit deeper. If you do decide to do functional medicine testing, maybe consider the DUTCH and a comprehensive stool test. 

Jenny: 

I would be open to that. I wonder if there is something there still. It was so bad for a large chunk of my life. I am grateful that it’s better. Big impact on my life. That’s what prompted me to go- I have been gluten-free for 14 years. That was what helped me a lot. Still didn’t resolve it all, but it helped a lot. I would be interested in doing a comprehensive stool panel. 

Dr. Eric: 

I think the next steps: Continue with the diet. Gluten-free is great. I usually recommend paleo or autoimmune paleo for Hashimoto’s. If you are concerned about AIP being too restrictive, paleo is still pretty healthy. It eliminates the common allergens, the refined foods and sugars, unhealthy oils.

Stress management, we spoke about. Just continuing to work on sleep. Reducing your toxic burden. Trying to minimize cleaners, cosmetics in your home. Try to eat as organic as possible. 

The functional medicine testing. Just to fill in the gaps. If you feel like you have done everything from a diet and lifestyle standpoint. Maybe you haven’t. Maybe there is still some improvement in that area. Even if you have done 100%, you want to make sure that everything goes according to plan with conceiving. 

I would recommend doing the functional medicine testing. Some type of adrenal testing, maybe digging deeper and doing the DUTCH test, possibly a comprehensive stool panel. 

That would be your homework for things to work on. Hopefully, you give me an update in a few months with some really good news. It’s not easy. I know it’s very stressful, very emotional. Even for those who aren’t having fertility issues, taking a functional medicine approach and trying to lower and normalize antibodies usually is not an easy process. I commend you for doing what you’ve done so far. I definitely would look into the functional medicine testing and give me an update in the future. 

Jenny: 

Thank you. I will definitely look into the functional medicine testing. I hope there is a good update. At the very least, I want to be able to be the healthiest version of myself and reduce some of these other symptoms that I have. If there is a baby, that would be beautiful. I hope there is an update for you. 

Dr. Eric: 

Hopefully you get the best of both worlds. You optimize your health, and you give good news of pregnancy and having a healthy baby. 

The good news is that there are still things you can do. It’s not like you have exhausted everything. If you had said you had done all the functional medicine testing, even diet and lifestyle, there is room for improvement. I think you can continue to work on that. Consider functional medicine testing.

I’d like to be optimistic and confident that in a few months, you will shoot me an email with some good news. Definitely do so. Again, thank you so much for agreeing to do this audit, Jenny. 

Jenny: 

Of course. Thank you for your time and speaking with me. 

Dr. Eric: 

Thanks, everyone for taking the time to listen. I hope you found this conversation to be valuable. I look forward to catching everyone in the next episode.