Recently, I interviewed Kim, who was experiencing hypothyroid symptoms and is likely dealing with Hashimoto’s, and we discussed her journey with various thyroid medications, how dietary changes have impacted her symptoms, the importance of comprehensive and ongoing testing, the role of stress in thyroid health, and more. If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here [1].
Dr. Eric Osansky:
Welcome to another Save My Thyroid health audit. I am here chatting with Kim. Kim has been dealing with Hashimoto’s. I should ask: I know you were taking Armour for about 15 years for hypothyroidism, symptoms of Hashimoto’s. Were you officially diagnosed with Hashimoto’s? Did you have the antibodies?
Kim:
Not officially, no. That’s something my doctor wanted to explore once we decided if I was improving or not. I have had the standard hypothyroid symptoms, and that’s how I have always been treated.
Dr. Eric:
What are some of those symptoms you have been experiencing over the years?
Kim:
Initially, it was cold hands and hair loss. I had had pneumonia for a month, followed by bronchitis. I learned that thyroid problems can be initiated with a virus. In 2010, I was diagnosed as having hypothyroid, and things weren’t working well. I hadn’t done any research. I just followed along, “I need to take this medicine now.”
Dr. Eric:
Is that the only thyroid hormone replacement you have been on? Did you ever take a different one? Levothyroxine is commonly given.
Kim:
That’s what they put me on at first. I started feeling like I had severe arthritis. I had body aches all over. I started having muscle cramps. My friend suggested I talk to my doctor about that. They switched me to Armour Thyroid from there. All of that seemed to go away.
I did add a little bit of Iodoral. That seemed to be a good combination for a while. I haven’t felt well.
Dr. Eric:
For those who are listening, Iodoral is potassium iodide. How much did you take? How long did you take it for?
Kim:
At first, it was one pill. I don’t remember the dosage. It was your standard.
Dr. Eric:
12.5mg is a full tablet typically.
Kim:
Then I started cutting that in half. I felt like it was too much. I started to feel like I had a balance there. I went from 90mg of the Armour up to 180mg at this last point. That is when I started having those thyroid storm feelings and started doing a lot more research, trying to figure out if this is what I was feeling. Things were starting to pinpoint back to food allergies, too much medication.
I started to wean myself off carefully, or what I thought was carefully. I had a headache for a little bit, but I started feeling really good the less medicine I took.
I would also take a thyroid supplement initially from TheLiverDoctor.com. She had a really good blend. She is a great resource. I also found one out of Utah, Zow, maybe? It’s a really good blend of thyroid supplement. I’m taking that and this other raw dissected beef that I’m taking with some oils.
Dr. Eric:
With some oils?
Kim:
Yes. The MCT oil with the ADK drops and molecular progesterone. That’s all I’m taking for that.
Dr. Eric:
Okay. The bovine desiccated thyroid supplement is what you’re taking? You’re taking two thyroid supplements, one from TheLiverDoctor.com, and the raw desiccated bovine from the other company?
Kim:
I stopped with one from The Liver Doctor. I substituted a different one, which has more of the vitamins and supplements I was missing, according to the research I was doing. I have that and then the bovine supplement. I take those.
Dr. Eric:
Okay. How long have you been off the Armour for?
Kim:
Since September.
Dr. Eric:
Also trying to be gluten-free, sugar-free, grain-free, dairy-free?
Kim:
Gluten-free, yes. Working on the grain and dairy. I’m a bit of a milk diva with my coffee. Haven’t gotten away from that. I don’t drink a whole lot of milk after that, and I stay away from most cheeses. Maybe cottage cheese occasionally. I’ve noticed I have histamine reactions to those. When I have that, I stay away from it.
Sugar is a big thing for me. I have noticed tremendous histamine reactions from sugar. It’s almost instantaneous. I have to reach for a Kleenex.
With gluten, I am starting to notice that if I have a piece of pizza that has dairy on it, I have a stomachache. I don’t feel good when I’ve had gluten. I had a pretzel when we were on vacation, one of those big, soft pretzels. I couldn’t get through the whole thing because I started to feel like I was falling asleep. I just had such a reaction to it.
I also noticed while being on the Armour Thyroid, with that thyroid storm, it initiated type 2 diabetes symptoms. My blood sugar spiked. When I went off of the Armour and stayed off gluten and sugar at the same time, my blood sugar started to regulate. More research I read about also indicated that can sometimes happen with that thyroid storm. It’s strange.
Dr. Eric:
You put your biggest health challenges: the hypothyroidism; the food sensitivities, which you just touched upon; and the symptoms of Hashimoto’s. Your most recent TSH was 13. Is that correct?
Kim:
Yes.
Dr. Eric:
You’ve gone through different programs. Have you done any functional medicine testing besides blood tests? Have you done adrenal testing, gut testing?
Kim:
I have not. I am trying to work through this first quarter to April and then redo my blood test. I was hoping to maybe find a functional medicine doctor here in Toledo. I’ve heard of a couple of them that I might explore. See if that’s a different way of dealing with something.
Dr. Eric:
I guess you could see how you do over the next few months with the recommendations that have been given and then retest the bloodwork and see what the bloodwork looks like. If the bloodwork is looking better, and you’re feeling better, maybe just continue on that path. If not, then I would definitely look into doing some functional medicine testing.
The first thing we want to see is if you have Hashimoto’s antibodies. Most people with hypothyroidism have Hashimoto’s. It’s not perfect. If you’re negative, it doesn’t 100% rule out Hashimoto’s. There are two main antibodies associated with Hashimoto’s: TPO and TG antibodies. You want to make sure to get both of those tested when you do get those tested. If one or both of those are elevated, along with an elevated TSH, that typically is diagnostic of Hashimoto’s.
With Hashimoto’s, as I discuss in my book Hashimoto’s Triggers, there are a lot of triggers associated with Hashimoto’s. Could be food. Stress is a big one. Chemicals.
What you’re doing, diet, lifestyle, supplementation, it’s fine to see if that helps. You definitely need to incorporate diet and lifestyle changes. If you don’t head in the right direction, if things are not improving, that’s when I would look into doing some type of functional medicine testing.
That sounds like a good idea: finding someone in the area. I’m sure you will be able to find someone within driving distance who practices functional medicine. If you have to work with someone remotely, you can do that. There are more and more functional medicine practitioners, especially those who focus on hypothyroidism, not as many who help people with Graves’. Hashimoto’s shouldn’t be challenging.
I will say this about the TSH being 13. TSH is a pituitary hormone that communicates with the thyroid gland to produce thyroid hormone. It does sound like you were taking too much thyroid hormone in September. Your TSH was on the lower side, .8. You were experiencing more hyper symptoms. Now, what it’s saying with a TSH of 13, it’s now the opposite, where you are more on the hypo side.
You are taking some thyroid support supplements, like the desiccated bovine. I guess the question, which you might not know, is if it includes thyroid hormone. Some of them do, and some of them don’t. Not all of them will tell you if it has any thyroid hormone. It could have the glandular and removing the thyroid hormone. It does look like maybe you might benefit from some thyroid hormone, whether it’s Armour.
I’m not giving specific recommendations because I don’t prescribe thyroid hormone. If things are not improving over the next few months, let’s say TSH still remains elevated, especially if you get the antibodies tested. Let’s say you end up working with a functional medicine practitioner. The goal, even besides the thyroid hormone, is to try to find and remove the triggers, address the underlying cause.
If you do need to go on thyroid hormone, hopefully it’s only temporary, just to help with the symptoms. The body does need thyroid hormone. You don’t want it to get too low. Like I said, hopefully it would be on a temporary basis while your health is improving.
Hashimoto’s is more of an immune system condition than a thyroid condition, so when you optimize your immune system health, you might not need thyroid hormone. Some people do. Some people’s damage to the thyroid gland is severe enough that they might need to keep taking thyroid hormone even though there are other therapies like cold laser or red light that might help heal the thyroid directly. Those are other things to look into, if and when you work with another functional medicine practitioner.
I want to be optimistic and hope that after a few months, you do the testing. First of all, we want to hope that you feel better. When you do the testing, things are heading in the right direction. Maybe the TSH is not perfect, but maybe it’s a lot lower, and it looks like this might be helping. Maybe you need to continue doing what you’re doing for a few more months.
But if a few more months go by, and you’re still not feeling great, even if the TSH is 11, which is not much of an improvement. If it’s higher, that’s not good. It will fluctuate. Don’t just rely on TSH. Look at thyroid hormones, T3, T4, and see what those look like. I already mentioned the antibodies, too.
If things are not improving, and you need to see a functional medicine doctor, that is when they will evaluate you and determine if they need to look at adrenals, hormones, the gut, nutrient deficiencies, and give specific recommendations based on what’s going on. There could be mold toxicity. A lot of things can go on. I’m not suggesting you need to look into all of those.
Kim:
My doctor also prescribed an ultrasound on my thyroid. It did show that because of overmedication, my thyroid has shrunken. Is that a reversible thing or a permanent thing?
Dr. Eric:
Typically, it is reversible. You were taking thyroid hormone for a long time. If someone is taking it for a while, the body does become dependent a little bit on the thyroid hormone. But it’s usually something that can be reversed over time.
Another concern with taking too much thyroid hormone is bone density. Have you received any type of bone density test like DEXA?
Kim:
No.
Dr. Eric:
That may be something to look into and just make sure. You could improve bone density if you have osteopenia or osteoporosis. It just takes time. You probably need to do other things like weight bearing exercises. The first thing is being aware of that.
The thyroid itself, everybody is different. I’m not saying guaranteed it will go back 100% where it was. But you asked if it’s possible, and it is. There are now therapies that might help out.
When I work with someone who has Hashimoto’s, my goal is to focus initially on the immune system, the autoimmune component. There are also now things like cold laser, red light therapy, things I can’t do remotely. That’s the advantage of working with someone in person who does those therapies.
The first thing you need to do, if it is Hashimoto’s, is address the immune system. If you don’t, you will still get damage taking place to the thyroid gland. Some would say you could do both at the same time. it won’t hurt to do both at the same time, but to me, it makes sense, if we are going to prioritize the immune system, is the cause of the damage to the thyroid gland.
A different question you asked is if too much thyroid hormone is causing those changes. Now you’re not taking the thyroid hormone at all. If you go back on thyroid hormone, you wouldn’t be going back to the same dose, I would imagine, since that was too high. You have to adjust it.
The body is very resilient. The thyroid does take longer to recover than other parts of the body, like the gut and the liver. It doesn’t mean it can’t heal or regenerate over time.
Kim:
So many things to consider.
Dr. Eric:
Yeah. The main highlights to summarize to think about. See how the next few months go. Follow some recommendations. Take some supplements. Make dietary changes. See how that goes. Then they will do another blood test. If symptoms and blood tests improve, great. Stay on the same track probably. If not, I would look into functional medicine testing. Either way, it’s a good idea to look at the antibodies for Hashimoto’s and see if those are also present.
Thank you again, Kim, for taking the time to do this audit. Hope you found this to be helpful. Keep me posted. Feel free to give me an update in the future.
Kim:
Absolutely. I thank you for your resources. It’s been very helpful.
Dr. Eric:
You’re welcome. Thank you for reading or listening to them. Was it mainly the podcast? I didn’t ask you initially how you found me.
Kim:
Being a troll on Facebook. One research person leads to the next research person. It’s this rabbit trail. I got your book Hashimoto’s Triggers. I listened to a couple episodes of the podcast. As I have time, I continue to read and research and read and research.
Dr. Eric:
Thank you for getting my book. I’m glad you found it to be helpful. Same thing with the podcast episodes.
You’re doing a lot of great things. Avoiding gluten, minimizing dairy and sugar. Keep up the good work with that. Hopefully, you get some good changes. If not, there is still hope. We all want the quick and easy fix. Many times, it does take some time. Let’s cross our fingers and hope it will be quicker in your case. If not, I wouldn’t give up hope. It just means you have to dig deeper and do some more detective work with those functional medicine tests.
Kim:
Sounds good, thank you.
Dr. Eric:
All right. Thanks again, Kim.
Kim:
You’re welcome.