Recently, I interviewed Megan Lyons, and we talked the relationship between nutrition and thyroid health, the benefits of antioxidants, healthy fats, and proteins, concerns about goitrogens in cruciferous vegetables, phytoestrogens in soy, whether a gluten-free diet is necessary for thyroid patients, the impact of oxalates, Megan’s perspective on natural sweeteners, and more. If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.
Dr. Eric Osansky:
I am excited to chat with today’s guest, Megan Lyons. We are going to be doing a deep dive into nutrition, talking a little bit about thyroid health as well. Let me go ahead and dive into Megan’s bio.
Megan Lyons is a sought-after health and wellness expert who is deeply passionate about inspiring others to feel their healthiest and happiest. Megan is a Harvard graduate MBA and former management consultant who left the business world to follow her passion for wellness by opening The Lyons’ Share Wellness in 2014.
Since then, she has earned a master’s degree in holistic nutrition, become double board-certified in holistic nutrition and clinical nutrition, and is currently pursuing a doctorate in clinical nutrition. She is a master of 10,000+ hours of one-to-one nutrition counseling with clients internationally.
Megan runs a top podcast on health, Wellness Your Way with Megan Lyons. Her Revitalized Health Accelerator is a community of like-minded individuals looking to continuously uplevel their health and wellness. Thank you so much for joining us, Megan.
Megan Lyons:
Thank you so much. I’m really excited to be here with you today.
Dr. Eric:
I’m also excited to chat with you. Let’s get started by giving a little bit of your background. Why did you choose to leave the business world and enter the world of nutrition?
Megan:
I think like many of our stories, it started with myself. I grew up as a high-achieving kid who didn’t really think too much about health. I danced all through my childhood and even through college, but I never really considered exercise or nutrition at all.
In college, I saw a cute guy actually on move-in day. He was on the track and cross country team. I thought, hey, I should probably start running if I want to get his attention. I did start running. I ended up marrying him several years later. Now it’s been 20 years since that.
Like I said, I was a high-achieving kid. Anything that I started doing, I did too much. I did over the top. I started running too much for my body. I started trying to learn about nutrition. In those days, we didn’t have social media or as much internet access as we have now. It was all magazines and some books, but I was reading fitness magazines, Self, Shape. What I was reading was, “Eat half a protein bar for lunch. Be on the elliptical for two hours a day.” I did it. Like any good high-achieving kid, I kept going and going. I eventually burned myself into the ground.
I was 23 when I went into a doctor’s office and said, “I feel terrible.” They thankfully ran my hormones, which actually looking back, I’m somewhat shocked that they did. I’ll never forget the doctor looking at me, and she said, “You’re 23 years old, and your sex hormones are lower than the post-menopausal women that I work with. I don’t know what’s going on. You must have to be on medication for the rest of your life.”
I just knew that wasn’t the answer. I didn’t know what the answer was, but I knew that I was doing this to myself, not in a shaming way, but in a way of if I can take responsibility for this, I know I can figure out how to change it.
That started me into learning about real nutrition and health. I always like to say once you feel it for yourself, you can’t help but share it with the world. It did take me several years to actually make that decision. I went back to consulting. But it was burning so much inside of me that I just had to share it with other people. I started The Lyons’ Share Wellness in 2014. Here we are.
Dr. Eric:
Pretty cool story. Funny you mentioned, well, not funny, but you mentioned the overtraining. As we were chatting before, I have a history of Graves’, and I’m sure that was one of the contributing factors. Before I was diagnosed, I was overtraining and dieting. I didn’t at the time think I was overtraining, just like probably you didn’t think when you were running two hours on the elliptical. You felt great when you were done.
Megan:
Correct.
Dr. Eric:
The more, the better. I didn’t think that either. At least you had an excuse. You were 23 years old. I was older. I was graduating chiropractic school at the time. I didn’t listen to my body. Definitely not only emotional stressors, but those physical stressors could play a role, too.
I wanted to start out by talking about some of the beneficial foods, just because we will definitely talk about gluten and other foods you should avoid. I want to start out on a positive note. What are some foods that you recommend for people with thyroid conditions to eat, or just in general? What are some of the healthier foods?
I don’t know if there is a difference. If someone walks into your office, or virtually, and someone has a thyroid condition, whether it’s Hashimoto’s or a non-autoimmune condition, or just someone with a different condition, if the foods vary. Feel free to go anywhere you’d like to with this.
Megan:
I think of them as two circles: thyroid and general health. But the vast majority of those two circles, maybe 90%, do overlap. There are very few conditions that the nutrition is completely different from the nutrition guidance I would give to the average person, which is nice. It makes it a little bit easier. Of course, there are various tweaks for every single condition.
When it comes to what overlaps with general health, at first, I like to think about really nourishing our body, which we do through all of these wonderful antioxidants and polyphenols and all kinds of good chemicals from plants in particular. Berries are some of my favorite foods to recommend. Dark leafy greens are really rich in these polyphenols. All kinds of vibrant colors of vegetables and fruits.
Then I also like to think of really good quality healthy fats, which are important for all kinds of hormones, thyroid hormones included. Avocadoes, olive oil, nuts, seeds (to tolerance, depending on the person’s gut health), olives, foods like that.
And good quality protein as well. Bone broth tends to be one that is generally very well tolerated for people with thyroid conditions and otherwise. But that is a very soothing food. All kinds of good quality proteins. We can talk about what that means.
If I’m thinking of some foods that I would particularly recommend to patients with thyroid conditions, I think we often hear about selenium and zinc, which are important. If I didn’t know anything else about the person aside from they have a thyroid condition, I probably would recommend some foods rich in selenium, like Brazil nuts, or in zinc, like oysters. There is a lot more to know in terms of whether or not we need to focus on those nutrients or not. But that’s where I would start.
Dr. Eric:
I want to talk a little bit about bone broth. I would think you would agree that if someone is willing to make their own bone broth, that would be best. If someone doesn’t have the time, they just want to go out and buy bone broth, is it okay for them to get it, assuming it’s a good quality, organic, grass-fed beef bone broth, for example?
Megan:
I say yes. I am very big into let’s make this doable for the person. You’re right. If we’re willing to make it at home, it is the best. I resisted this for a while because the thought of putting bones in my Instant Pot was strange. Honestly, it’s really not that bad. It’s incredibly easy. It takes about four minutes of hands-on time. I find at my local butcher I can get some extra bones that I know have been well sourced.
Just like you said, if that doesn’t feel sustainable, there are several brands out there. I have zero affiliation with these brands. Bonafide Provisions, Kettle & Fire, there are many others that are making good quality bone broth. That’s a great place to start.
Dr. Eric:
I agree with that. One thing I want to get your opinion on is cruciferous vegetables. There is a little bit of controversy with cruciferous vegetables and thyroid health, the so-called goitrogenic properties of broccoli, kale, and cauliflower. What is your opinion here?
Megan:
I tend to believe that most foods that nature made can’t be that detrimental to us until we overdo it. It is true that cruciferous vegetables have goitrogens, so they are goitrogenic, which can inhibit the thyroid. But actually, it’s not just cruciferous vegetables. A lot of vegetables and other foods have goitrogenic properties.
It’s all about the dosage. If someone is coming to me with a thyroid condition and saying, “I eat seven cups of raw broccoli per day,” absolutely. I am going to help them change to a different type of vegetable, or at least help them cook their broccoli really well, which can help neutralize some of that.
I don’t think that it’s necessary for the vast majority of people with thyroid conditions to completely take those foods out. It’s all about quantity and moderation. There are so many great properties of those foods that I would hate for us to completely eliminate them. I’d also love to hear your thoughts on that.
Dr. Eric:
I definitely agree that I think in most people, it’s not going to be a problem. I recommend them. Again, I do see a lot of people with hyperthyroidism, so if that was the case, I still probably wouldn’t say no. Again, people with hyperthyroidism would probably rather eat broccoli and cruciferous vegetables than take antithyroid medication.
Experimenting with that, I intentionally tried using larger amounts of cruciferous vegetables in patients years ago to see if that would work. Some of my hyperthyroid patients, specifically pregnant women who didn’t want to take medication. Obviously, it didn’t work.
Maybe if someone is eating a massive amount of raw cruciferous vegetables. As we both know, usually that’s not the case. Most people, we need to encourage to eat more vegetables; they are not eating too many vegetables, even one specific vegetable. I agree with everything you say here.
Now you did mention that cruciferous vegetables aren’t the only goitrogens, which is true. Another goitrogenic food I want to talk about, which we don’t need to get into the goitrogenic properties, is soy. I want to get your perspective on soy.
It’s goitrogenic, but there are other reasons. A lot of practitioners will say to avoid soy, not necessarily for the goitrogenic properties, but for genetically modified, if it’s not organic. Lectin potentially in soy. I wanted to have your perspective. I definitely will give my perspective after you share yours.
Megan:
Great. I’m interested to hear it because I think this is one of those things that just like eggs, we have flipped so many times on this. This is in part what is frustrating to people about nutrition science. Also, what can be exciting to us as practitioners because we are constantly learning more and figuring out how to actually do nutrition studies. Of course, we can’t and don’t want to lock humans in a cage for 50 years, but that makes it hard to do appropriate nutrition studies. Now, we are just learning how to do it better, so we get better information.
That said, my read of the research on soy is that there are actually some beneficial properties to the natural phytoestrogens from soy, if it’s consumed in whole forms. In edamame, especially organic, non-GMO edamame. Or in maybe some sprouted, organic tofu, something like that. I don’t have people shy away from those whole food forms of soy.
Now, where I will change my tone is a lot of soybean oil, soybean lecithin in everything, soybean who knows what else, all the processed derivatives of soy. I do think that there is such a thing as too much of that. Whole food soy, especially in organic, non-GMO forms, I will support.
Dr. Eric:
I agree. I will admit if I have someone following an elimination diet, initially I will have them avoid soy, almost to play it safe, mainly because it is a common allergen.
With that being said, organic fermented soy has some great health benefits. I’m not really concerned about the phytoestrogenic properties. I agree with you. I have done research with that and flaxseeds. I think it’s beneficial. Estrogen gets a bad rap. People’s concern about estrogen dominance, eating soy, eating flaxseeds, those are not going to cause problems. If anything, they might be beneficial.
Megan:
Exactly. It’s a lot about how we process the soy. If we have a damaged gut or our detoxification system is not working well, then we are recirculating a lot of those estrogens. That can be negative. If our body is healthy and operating appropriately, phytoestrogens from soy and flax especially should not cause a problem.
Dr. Eric:
I agree. I also agree with what you said before. Drinking soymilk or soybean oil or the most processed forms, I do recommend for people to avoid those. We’re on the same page with that as well.
Gluten, we’ll get this out of the way. Do you recommend, at least while healing, to avoid gluten?
Megan:
I really pride myself on not being all or nothing, black or white, yes or no on almost everything. For people with thyroid conditions, and honestly a variety of other autoimmune and even non-autoimmune conditions, I do think that a period of 100% gluten-free is important for healing.
I know it breaks people’s hearts to hear this. Some people actually in my practice find it easier as opposed to saying, “Oh, I’m going to have sugar once a week. I’m going to have an alcoholic drink once a week.” Just saying no gluten is easier.
That was the case for me. I don’t have an autoimmune thyroid condition. For me, I realized, based on my hormonal issues in the past, my gut issues, all kinds of reasons, and the fact that our gluten today is not that healthy and sprayed with glyphosate and all kinds of other things, it was easier for me to say 100% no. I haven’t looked back. It’s been 11 years or so, maybe more, for me.
I can tell you that it’s really not that bad. But I understand my clients’ reaction when at the beginning, I say, “Let’s go gluten-free for a few months,” and it looks like their brain might explode because it feels overwhelming. Of course, we walk them through it. I do think that at least in the initial period of healing, we need to eliminate it. I would love to hear your thoughts as well.
Dr. Eric:
I definitely agree. If someone is eating whole healthy foods, then it’s not that difficult. Making that transition, if someone is not eating whole healthy foods, what some people will do is eat gluten-free cookies and other things that are gluten-free. I can’t say I never eat those foods.
Sometimes I joke around and say it’s been years since I’ve had Graves’, so I can’t say I never have pizza, like a cauliflower crust pizza for example. While healing, I would usually say to take a break from even those foods. Just because it’s gluten-free doesn’t mean it’s healthy.
I do agree that for some people, it’s not a big deal. “As long as I don’t have to give up my coffee,” for example. You’re right. For some people, it is a big deal. For others, there are other foods or beverages that they don’t want to give up. They don’t want to give up coffee, but they don’t mind giving up gluten.
Megan:
Yes, I agree.
Dr. Eric:
Speaking of coffee, I tell people to take a break from coffee even though it does have polyphenols and other health benefits. It’s not a forever thing. What is your perspective as far as coffee? Does it depend on the person’s condition that they are presenting?
Megan:
I think the latter. It depends for me on the person. The reason is that many thyroid conditions are related to that HPA, hypothalamic pituitary adrenal, or HPT, hypothalamic pituitary thyroid, axis. A lot of it can be stress-based or sympathetic nervous system-based. Even if I change that word “based,” maybe “related.” There is something going on with the balance between sympathetic and parasympathetic. Coffee and caffeine as stimulants do not allow us to heal that balance.
I do drink coffee personally in moderation. And I think there are many benefits to the polyphenols and, even some of the studies show, the actual caffeine in coffee.
During that healing period, for a lot of people, I will help them find alternatives. There are great alternatives out there that are maybe chicory-based, coffee/herbal beverages, or other things that can mimic the taste of coffee. Oftentimes, once they get over that initial “that seems scary,” they find the substitutes to be just fine.
Dr. Eric:
That’s good news these days. Even though we said just because something is gluten-free doesn’t mean it’s healthy, when someone is on a wellness basis, and they want to have gluten-free pizza or cookies, there are, in my opinion, delicious options, compared to 10-15 years ago when gluten-free pizza would taste more like cardboard. There weren’t as many options.
Same thing with coffee. There are a lot of good coffee substitutes. I am not a coffee drinker, so I can’t say I have tried all or most of them. My wife is a coffee drinker like you. Also, a lot of my patients, they’ve had experience trying different types of coffee substitutes. You’re right. There are a lot of healthy options out there for those who are coffee drinkers but are taking a break from it.
Megan:
Yes.
Dr. Eric:
How about dairy? What are your thoughts on dairy while healing, and as far as reintroducing it eventually?
Megan:
I put dairy in between coffee and gluten, meaning gluten is 100% for almost everyone with a thyroid condition, and coffee, I would say maybe 50-60% of my clients who have thyroid conditions end up taking a break from coffee. Dairy is somewhere in the middle.
I think if we had a healthy, robust gut and immune system, a little bit of good quality dairy would not be a problem for most of us. There are a lot of caveats to that sentence. Most of us don’t have healthy guts. Most of us don’t have healthy immune systems, especially with autoimmune conditions.
Healthy dairy is honestly very hard to find in the United States because we are pumping it with so many hormones, antibiotics, etc. The quality of dairy we get.
And the frequency of consumption, which is a lot. Many of my clients, without even knowing it, are consuming dairy 7-8 times a day with milk in their coffee and cheese on their eggs and cheese on their salads and cheese for a snack and maybe ice cream after dinner. We just know that not only can dairy be mucus-forming and make us not feel as great, but it can incite that immune response in our bodies. We just want to cool all of that stuff off when we are initially healing the thyroid.
I do tend to believe that many people can reintroduce dairy, especially good quality, maybe some real yogurt or some hard parmesan cheese or something like that, after a period of time.
Dr. Eric:
I can’t say that I never eat dairy. I don’t eat it every single day, but I’ll have it maybe a few times a month. Sometimes, I might go a few months without it. As far as things like yogurt, I am personally fine with having coconut yogurt. Same thing with ice cream. I have two teenage girls, so I can’t say I never have any regular ice cream. But I’m fine with the alternatives, too. You have to be careful. Just because it’s alternative, that doesn’t mean there isn’t other stuff in there, so be careful when reading ingredients. Do you currently have dairy at all?
Megan:
Dairy is a funny thing for me. I love yogurt. You’re right, there are great yogurt options out there. I just really love yogurt. And cottage cheese, too. I really enjoy it. Even ice cream. I’m great with the coconut milk alternatives, coffee creamer, no problem. Yogurt and cottage cheese, I love.
What happens is I will say, “I’m feeling great. I’ll bring dairy in for a while.” Then I feel great. Then six months go by, and I realize, “Oh my gosh, I just consumed dairy twice a day for the past three weeks. I’m really pushing my boundaries.” As we’re recording this in early February, in January, I did zero dairy for myself, just to reset. Just like you, I’m okay with having it 1-3 times a week. But I know for me, there is a limit. I just need to reset myself every once in a while.
Dr. Eric:
Listen to your body. Everybody is different. There might be people listening to this who are saying, “I’ve been eating dairy daily for years.” That was me years ago. The problem is that a lot of people, if not most people, are eating the unhealthier forms of dairy. It’s one thing if they’re consuming raw, unpasteurized, not homogenized dairy in the healthier forms. If someone is just drinking regular milk, even if it’s organic, it’s still processed. At least in my opinion, it’s still not ideal to have that every single day. If someone wants it now and then, it really depends on the person.
Megan:
I agree. I have some funny genetics for a lot of reasons. My mom has terrible gut health. My dad has wonderful gut health. He is 75. He has been drinking milk every single day of his life. He eats a lot of cheese. He is honestly fine. I have switched him thankfully to organic and better quality, but he is still drinking organic milk out of a carton, and he’s fine. I just know that is not my case. My mom for sure, not either. Like you said, listening to your body on this one is really important.
Dr. Eric:
Let’s talk a little bit about oxalates. I was listening to some of your previous interviews on other podcasts. Oxalates are a hot topic. I know your thoughts because I listened to the interview, but I want you to share your thoughts with these listeners.
Megan:
Oxalates are a hot topic, just like goitrogens and some others. I honestly think 1) the real foundational principles of nutrition are just not fancy enough to sell very well. If everyone every day says, “Eat more vegetables. Drink more water. Eat less sugar,” it gets boring. People want something else.
2) People want something to demonize. I am not here arguing that oxalates are not a real thing. They are. They can be a problem. Certainly, if someone has existing kidney issues or a variety of other conditions, will I have them be aware of oxalate consumption and reduce it? Yes.
For the average person, I don’t put people on a low-oxalate diet. Just like the cruciferous vegetables, if I notice that someone is putting five cups of spinach in their smoothie, and they have a spinach salad, and they are having kale chips for a snack, there is a good chance I will either run an organic acids test or check in with them to see if they can substitute some of that. Otherwise, I don’t think people need to be afraid of spinach or kale or any of the other foods with oxalates, unless there is a known issue.
Dr. Eric:
Funny you mention the organic acids test because I have been having smoothies for years. In the past, I would stuff it with spinach and didn’t really think anything of it. I did an organic acids test and had high urinary oxalates. That doesn’t guarantee that I have kidney stones or other issues, but at the time, I figured there were other substitutes. It’s not like I can’t or shouldn’t have any spinach ever again. Maybe I was overdoing it with the spinach. At the very least, it taught me to diversify more.
I don’t recommend for everyone to follow a low-oxalate diet, but there are other substitutes as well. Same thing. If I see someone overdoing it, I will say something.
I don’t know if you are familiar with Sally K. Norton. She has a book called Toxic Superfoods. Very interesting book, which focuses on oxalates. She was on the podcast.
Again, it’s very interesting. She is research-based. One of the foods that is higher in oxalates is sweet potatoes, which I commonly recommend to people. Since then, I still haven’t stopped. I don’t say everyone needs to cut out sweet potatoes. But I am more aware of how certain foods are high in oxalates, and there are some good substitutes. Not to say never to eat those foods, but there are other options.
Things like sweet potatoes, I usually have people avoid white potatoes while healing, too, so sweet potatoes. “I look forward to my sweet potato every day” for some people. I have been recommending them for years, and I can’t say I have seen problems with people eating sweet potatoes and some other higher oxalate foods.
I admit since the interview, it’s been more eye-opening. Like I said, I am more cautious. Berries, for example. I can’t say I never add blackberries and raspberries to my smoothie, which are high in oxalates. Blueberries, according to Sally, are not, and cranberries are not. It did make me aware.
I was rotating anyway. It’s not like I was adding blackberries every day. If I was, I probably would start rotating.
For the listeners, I would say if you love blackberries or raspberries, I am not saying to give them up. Sally K. Norton may say that. There are substitutes if you wanted to. At the very least, I would say to rotate. That is the case with all these foods. You shouldn’t be eating spinach every single day. Anyway. I’m of the mindset that it’s good to diversify.
Megan:
I agree completely. Diversification is so important with food. I am one of those people who I could eat the same breakfast every single day for the rest of my life, and I would be just fine. I don’t crave that much variety.
But it really is important to try to break out of our ruts and rotate our foods, so we don’t develop these intolerances, and we get an abundance of nutrients. I do encourage people to do that, to the extent that it’s reasonable. I am not someone who says, “Oh my gosh, you ate asparagus yesterday. You can’t eat asparagus today!” Let’s not get too dogmatic about it. But get some variety in there.
One more thing I wanted to say for the sweet potatoes. Have you ever tried parsnip fries? They’re really great. A parsnip is a white-looking carrot. You can cut them in fry shapes and roast them in the oven. They have that same mouthfeel as potatoes and sweet potatoes.
Dr. Eric:
Interesting. I didn’t know that.
Getting back to eating something different every day. When you go grocery shopping, and you get whatever vegetables, you want to use it up before it spoils. You might use it a few days consecutively. To me, that’s normal. I guess the person who, every time they go to Whole Foods or a farmer’s market or wherever they are buying, if they keep on buying the same exact vegetables every single time, if you want to buy whatever batch of vegetables you get, use them up for however long it takes, and next time you shop, get some different ones. I think we agree on that.
Megan:
Yes, we do.
Dr. Eric:
Can you overdo it with fruit, in your opinion? Can you eat too much fruit?
Megan:
I think yes is the answer, but most people are not. I will never forget, at the beginning of Instagram, whenever that was, there was a guy who called himself the 40 Banana a Day guy. I don’t remember his real name. He was literally eating 40 bananas a day. I just think that’s too much. There is no other way to put it.
If you are that guy, then let’s make a change. But most people, I don’t think that having, let’s say, a serving of fruit with breakfast, and maybe a serving of fruit as a snack, and then maybe even you’re sprinkling a couple of blueberries on some coconut yogurt after dinner, that’s several servings of fruit. I don’t think that’s the issue.
There are some people with severe dysglycemia who I see who I might work on paring back, especially those tropical fruits, like papaya, mango, even banana, pineapple, all of those kinds of things. Trading them for lower glycemic fruits.
But we are demonizing the wrong thing. If we look at the spectrum of sugar-laden foods, and we are worrying about our blueberries or apples, and we are still allowing candy and sugary creamers and sugary dressings and sugary yogurts, we are probably focusing on the wrong part of the spectrum in my opinion.
Dr. Eric:
I can’t imagine anybody eating 40 bananas, let alone 40 of any food, just fruit.
Megan:
Yeah.
Dr. Eric:
Even one a day. 40 bananas in a single day, let alone every single day. That’s crazy.
Megan:
It sounds terrible. I can’t imagine he felt good. He was getting popular, so maybe that felt good. But no. People just take everything to extremes.
Dr. Eric:
Yeah. I agree. Let’s talk about natural sweeteners. I’m sure you would agree to try to avoid artificial sweeteners. If you don’t, let me know your thoughts on those. I’m thinking sucralose, okay. How about things like stevia, monkfruit? What are your thoughts on those and other natural sweeteners?
Megan:
I personally consume stevia and monkfruit. I would not say on an excessive basis. Those are not things I shy away from.
I think the jury’s still out on these. I don’t think we have enough research to be conclusive on stevia and monkfruit. I do think we have enough research to be conclusive that sucralose, aspartame, potassium, all these disrupt our gut microbiome and can lead to negative outcomes.
Stevia and monkfruit, the research is new in my opinion. I believe that because they are naturally based- I will also say we have to be very careful at looking at labels. Some of the packets of stevia is like the last ingredient. It’s not stevia. It’s dextrose or erythritol or whatever else. Really make sure you’re getting stevia or monkfruit. I feel, based on the limited amount of research that exists, that those will be much better alternatives.
One more caveat is they can definitely change our tastebuds. I notice in my clients people who are having six packets of stevia in their coffee, and they have to put stevia on their strawberries. They don’t appreciate the natural sweetness of real food anymore. That leads to increased sugar cravings. I would say have caution.
My current read of the research is a little bit of those is gonna be fine. I’d love to hear your thoughts though.
Dr. Eric:
I agree. I don’t go out of my way to avoid those. I’m not a coffee drinker, but I drink green tea and herbal tea. I used to add stevia to them. Then I stopped. First, I added stevia, and then I was also adding honey. If I had a choice, honestly, I would add a little bit of honey. Over the last couple of years, I have had it without having anything.
Part of it is also the fasting, which I want to talk to you a little bit about. There is still controversy whether stevia causes an insulin response and breaks the fast. I don’t think green tea by itself does. I just stopped adding anything to green tea. Herbal teas to me are pleasant even without sweetener. It was the green tea that I can’t say I absolutely love; I just drink a cup in the morning for the benefits. Then I pretty much drink herbal tea after that.
I haven’t seen anything negative with monkfruit. I know with stevia, potentially, there is some research that it could affect fertility. I forget if that’s human studies or rat studies. Just to play it safe, if someone is trying to conceive, they might want to take a break from stevia. Maybe it won’t prevent them from getting pregnant.
Megan:
Yeah, I’m not sure if this is the same study, but it might be. The one that I saw relatively recently, the stevia part was in the headlines, but it was actually lumping stevia, sucralose, other artificial sweeteners together in the study group. I’m not sure.
I agree. There is zero harm in taking stevia out of your diet, especially if you have concerns like fertility. Why not go to a little bit of honey or train your tastebuds to enjoy herbal tea without any sweetener? I think that’s not a bad idea in any form.
Dr. Eric:
Let’s talk about fasting. Let me give my thoughts on fasting. I mentioned how I do some fasting. When I dealt with Graves’, this was 2008-2009. Fasting wasn’t the hot topic that it is today. At that time, I was losing a lot of weight. I wasn’t in a really good state of health. I would definitely not have wanted to fast then given the situation.
I do incorporate intermittent fasting. Typically, I will go 14-16 hours, sometimes a little bit longer. I try not to do extreme fasts. I listen to my body. I do see people doing extreme fasts. I had a patient who was doing 20-hour fasts. It seemed like she wasn’t getting enough protein in that four-hour window, as it was every single day. She was doing it to lose weight.
I can’t say I encourage people necessarily to fast. I tell all my patients while healing to fast. It depends on the situation. Many times, I will discourage people from fasting if I don’t think they’re ready for it.
I guess in a nutshell, I do fasting, but I don’t think it’s a perfect fit for everyone. I think some people can definitely benefit from it. Other people might need to heal their adrenals and overall put it on the backburner until later.
Megan:
Yes. I completely agree with that sentiment. There is incredible research on the benefits of fasting for autophagy led by Walter Longo and others; digestion; healing all kinds of various conditions. And most of that research is either done on mice or on middle-aged, non-stressed men. Most of the clients that I see are not mice or middle-aged, non-stressed men because that’s really hard to fit all of those categories.
Do I think the benefits can extend beyond that? Yes. But it becomes more complicated with women. I do think women can fast. Women who have healthy relationships with their body, who are in a stable thyroid and hormone condition, even if that’s post-menopausal. Post-menopausal women are great candidates for fasting. If you’re going through a tumultuous time with your hormones, thyroid, emotions, or stress, I don’t think it’s the time for fasting.
Fasting is a stressor. Just like exercise or any other hermetic stressors—which basically means if it doesn’t kill you, it makes you stronger—there is benefit. If our cup is already too high from stress, I am very emotionally stressed. I am dealing with whatever kind of social situation. My thyroid is out of balance right now. I’m trying to get pregnant. Or something like that. All these stressors. Fasting is definitely not the right move for you.
Trying to conceive, for sure, or while pregnant, I would not recommend fasting. Very low body fat or endurance athlete, really training very heavily, severe dysglycemia. Of course, we want to get to the point where we’re more metabolically flexible, and we can handle fasting. But if you’re in the middle, that’s not the time. Eating disorder history, hyperthyroid in almost all cases, any kind of wonky hormonal imbalance. All those categories, I would say no. If you’re not in those categories, then there are great benefits.
Dr. Eric:
Do you incorporate any intermittent fasting personally?
Megan:
Listen to your body in practice. What I do for intermittent fasting, which I believe it should be normal. I don’t call this intermittent fasting in myself. I do a 12-hour eating window. That means 12 hours. If I finish dinner at 7:30pm, I don’t eat before 7:30am. I call it normal because I don’t think that should be a stretch for most people. I do think that’s healthy for most people.
If and when I am in a low stress state, and that’s all relative. We don’t have continuous cortisol monitors although I hope we do so sometime in the near future. I can tell in my body if my body can handle it. Then I can push it more.
I won’t do it for myself at various times of my cycle. If you are a cycling female, it’s actually better to do it in the first half of your cycle. I won’t do it in the latter phases of my cycle. I just won’t do it if I know my body is under too much stress. There are so many great things out there. We can’t pull all the levers all at once. I just pick and choose what’s right for me at the moment.
Dr. Eric:
Continuous cortisol monitors. We do have continuous glucose monitors, which I’d love to get your opinion on. Continuous cortisol monitors, it would be awesome if they do come out with those in the future.
Megan:
I think it’s coming. I really do. I am not ever going to be a person who dives into the technology world or the tech startup world. I have talked to enough people who are at least thinking about it that I just have everything crossed that’s coming.
Dr. Eric:
Very interesting. What are your thoughts on CGMs?
Megan:
I have worn over 40 CGMs in my life. Each one lasts for 10 or 14 days depending. I love them.
I also will tell you, being that high achiever person that started my health journey, the very first time I put in a CGM, I thought, oh, this is my job. I eat really healthily. Absolute zero problem. It should be 100%. Great. And it wasn’t. That stressed me out beyond belief.
Looking back at some of these graphs, Megan, what were you doing to yourself? I got paralyzed by the idea of any kind of glucose bump to the point where I thought, I can’t even eat one blueberry. Oh my gosh, my glucose spikes like crazy.
Then I had this day. Dallas doesn’t go through freezes very often, but we had a very dramatic freeze overnight. All of our pipes froze in my home. I had a humongous presentation that I really cared a lot about. I was supposed to drive, and I couldn’t drive. I was just stressed beyond belief. I had not eaten anything that day. I had not exercised. I had not had coffee. My glucose spiked like crazy to 178. It was very high.
Then I realized, okay, look back at your CGM. It wasn’t the one blueberry you had. It was the stress about the one blueberry. I had to get into that mode and realize you don’t have to be perfect. It’s a learning tool. Ever since that first or second one, I think it’s been a fantastic tool.
The last caution I would say is glucose is not everything. Human bodies are actually designed to have a rise in glucose. If you eat your salmon and broccoli and rice, and because there is rice and broccoli, you have a little bit of a glucose bump, great. Your body is working exactly as it should. If you want to consider it as information, I think it’s a great learning tool. It’s also expensive, so consider that. But it is not the only thing. There are other important things to consider about nutrition.
Dr. Eric:
All right. I definitely want you to share your eight-minute morning routine. Before doing that, because of this talk of stress, are there foods you would recommend to help support the adrenals since this conversation is focused around food? Or any dietary habits? We just spoke about not wanting to do extreme fasting and things like that. Are there any specific foods you would actually recommend eating?
Megan:
For our adrenal health, we really want to focus on all three macronutrients: protein, fat, and carbohydrates. I find most of my adrenally driven clients are eating too low carb. Carbohydrates in a healthy form are essential for adrenal healing. We don’t want cotton candy and jellybeans. Having some really robust sources of complex carbohydrates is important. Then getting enough protein and healthy fat. All of the macronutrients are important for adrenal health.
The one interesting one that I think is in the 10% that doesn’t overlap in the Venn diagram is salt. A good quality salt in moderate doses is actually very helpful for adrenal healing. We don’t want to go too low sodium with the adrenals. Otherwise, it’s just robust sources of all the macronutrients.
Dr. Eric:
I’m glad you mentioned salt because that’s something. I add sea salt to my food regularly, to give it taste but also knowing that it helps support adrenals.
Let’s talk about your eight-minute morning routine. I heard you talk about that on some other interviews you did. I’d love for you to share that with this audience.
Megan:
Back to my 23-year-old hormonal crisis, I realized that I was suffering from something called NTFM syndrome, which is a made-up syndrome by me. It stands for No Time for Me Syndrome. I had this mental thing that was a pity party in my head. I have no time for what I want to do. Then I realized that’s actually not true. I have 168 hours in the week, just like everybody else does, and I can carve out that time for me to create the mental environment that sets me up for how I want to feel during the day.
That’s where my morning routine was born. I studied all the famous people’s morning routines. I came up with an acronym: WAKEUPGO. It’s eight habits, which I will tell you in a second. There is one minute for each habit. I committed myself to doing that for a couple weeks at a time. It sounds trite, but I promise you, my life changed. My morning routine is still my most important habit. I just don’t feel myself without it. It makes me so happy and balanced and productive the rest of the day.
The eight habits. W is for water. Big glass of water first thing.
A is for Affirmations. Reading your goals, pumping yourself up for the day.
K is for Knowledge. There is a lot of great research on learning new things and brain plasticity and all kinds of great stuff. Reading a page or two of a book.
E is for Exercise. Even if you will exercise later in the day, do a minute of stretching or jumping jacks or squats to get your blood flowing.
U is for Unwind. We take some deep breaths, meditate, journal, pray, whatever works for you to unwind.
P is Positivity. Listen to a positive song or read a positive quote.
G is for Gratitude. We have all heard the benefits of that. Just thinking of or writing down a few things you’re grateful for.
O is for One goal. We all have a million things on our to-do list. We tend to beat ourselves up for the ones we don’t do. Setting that one goal that will really make you feel amazing at the end of the day and focusing on that, I find to be a very uplifting habit.
Dr. Eric:
Wonderful. Just curious, do you actually have a timer, where it’s eight minutes? Or is it now just such a routine? I’m sure it’s not exact. If you have a timer, then it’s exactly eight minutes. If not, then I’m guessing it’s maybe sometimes a minute or two over or under.
Megan:
The real truth is I did this in eight minutes a day with a timer, just the way you envision. Go all the way neurotic with it. I did that for several years. I loved that so much that now my morning routine takes a whole lot more than eight minutes. I wake up early enough and schedule my day, so I can be more relaxed about it. Now, I’m reading for probably 10 minutes in the morning. I’m meditating for five. These things just add up.
I have so many clients who literally do it in eight minutes. Some of them do it with a timer. Some of them do it by feel. Instead of unwinding for one minute, they just have the goal of taking five deep breaths, which takes about a minute. Just fiddle around with it, and you’ll get it to work for your schedule. The eight minutes isn’t the magic; that’s just the selling point to get people to realize they can do it if they are committed.
Dr. Eric:
There is a book miracle Morning, which I listened to on audio.
Megan:
Yes!
Dr. Eric:
That’s all about waking up early and getting into a routine. They check their cell phone, texts, emails, and do all these other things. I’m not saying it’s not important, but you definitely want to take care of your health first. I’m glad you shared that and are doing that yourself. That is awesome.
You covered so many different things, which I appreciate. Is there anything else that I should have asked you that I didn’t ask you? Is there anything else you want to share? For those who are like, “Wow, so many things you wanted to cover. What are two or three things I should focus on?”
Megan:
I will turn the question back to the audience. I believe nutrition and health in general is only successful when it’s sustainable. Maybe people heard eight different things today that sound helpful for them. If you try to implement all eight, it will be stressful, and you’ll likely not end up sticking with it.
I would encourage people to latch onto one or two things. Maybe make some notes about those other ones, and you can do them later. One or two things to start with.
The corollary factor to that is mindset is so powerful with nutrition, health, autoimmune healing, everything we’ve talked about today. I encourage people not to think about this as “I have to make these changes,” or “I can’t have gluten,” or “My body hates me because I have this thyroid condition.”
Instead, think of it as, “I now am empowered with knowledge that makes me feel my best. I love my body enough that I’m going to treat it well. I get to make these changes.” It feels a little forced and silly to some people, but it truly makes a big difference. Listen to how you’re speaking to yourself. Try to be kind to your body.
Dr. Eric:
That’s some great advice. Megan, where can people find out more about you?
Megan:
I have a website where I have been blogging every week since 2013. There is a lot of stuff on there. I don’t even remember everything that’s on there. The website is TheLyonsShare.org. I am also @TheLyonsShare on Instagram. My podcast is Wellness Your Way.
Dr. Eric:
Thank you so much, Megan, for sharing everything that you shared. It was a real good conversation. You covered a lot of different things. Appreciate you taking the time to do this. Thanks also for that eight-minute morning routine, which I know now is longer. It will hopefully encourage people to wake up early.
Quick question: What time do you wake up in the morning?
Megan:
I think this might have room for improvement. The real answer is between 4:40-4:50 every day, depending on what’s going on during the day. I genuinely love that time. I could obviously sleep longer and not do the morning routine. It makes a huge difference to me.
I also go to bed extremely early. That feels good to me. I prioritize my sleep. I’m in bed by 8:30pm. I would say 95% of the nights. Sleep is very important. That is the schedule that works for me.
Dr. Eric:
Thanks again. It was great chatting with you.
Megan:
Thank you. You as well.
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